Yep ,that list of Niner's QB's was correct in who was listed first and last. Starting with the one with the most talent and ending with the worst. (wink).

anyone have a link to a transcript from the total access interview with singletary today? the chat wrap is up on nfl.com but that was pretty basic

Great...Here we go again with the insanity of posting which 49er QB is the worst. Thanks TOP_CAT, thanks alot!

As the (wink) I posted indicated ,I was only pulling your chain.

If we can't laugh about the alex situation after 4 years then we would have to cry. I prefer to have a smile on my face !

Agreed but you have to think about the other tools who don't know when to stop. So consider that next time.

Sorry .
But here is the link to to the video of Sing on NFL Network tonight ...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d810305ad/Singletary-on-set

I'm surprised MRob and Battle aren't listed as well

Hi Matt, Looking over your list it strikes me how few franchise QBs there are in the game. I still can't believe Denver gave one away for nothing.

It's nice to get a good feel of the quality of data that TOP_CAT bases his opinions upon.

I see Matt Gutierrez is with New England, A De LaSalle grad!

For some reason Nfl.com video feeds have been skipping on me (I'll watch later on when the repeat comes on TV tonight )-so out of frustration went to You Tube -stumbled on a couple of clips of Coach Sing from last year -one after the last game was absolutely inspiring /electric ! Beside the notion of players with Je ne sais quoi(IT) , stands an even greater good -the Team-(as truly here the whole becomes greater than the sum of its' parts)- and this is what Coach is building here-this is what he believes in most( next to his religious tenets and family)- and to this gentlemen I can truly say amen! The new season can't come soon enough for me.

Tampa Bay is stockpiled, still would've liked to have Josh Johnson in the fold. Kevin O'Connell is another interesting guy. Denvers' looks weak. Sanchez will be a franchise QB in this league IMO.

I don't know when Matt has time to sleep. Between FB Twitter The Blog and his real job it's doesn't seem like he has a life at all. He must do post like this on the blog so he can irritate us. More QB logs on the fire. Top_Cat spitt'in Gasoline on it and grinning from ear to ear......

Gotta love this one.

Coach Sing - how do you see that the quarterback competition panning out this season? Are you looking for certain qualities or intangibles?

-Jonathan, San Jose, CA

Leadership is extremely important. Credibility at that position in terms of his teammates knowing, this is the guy. I won't really have to choose the guy, the huddle will choose the guy by the way they respond to the quarterback. The way the receivers respond to the quarterback and the way the defense asks questions of the quarterback. The team will really decide the quarterback. I'll just make the confirmation.

-Mike Singletary, San Francisco 49ers

http://chat.nfl.com/front/index/242

Yes indeed- the man is not confused!

What's the purpose of this list? Does the league send a list out for every position? Do they do this every year?

Should the niners try to get Favre?

::ducks lightning::

Questions:What's the purpose of this list? Does the league send a list out for every position? Do they do this every year? Should the niners try to get Favre?

My response: The purpose is to inform fans of the 49ers and the NFL which quarterbacks are currently under contract to which NFL team. As always, this blog entry is for educational/entertainment purposes and is not intended to encourage gambling.

No, the league does not send out a report such as this every position, only the most important position in the sport.

Yes, the league sends it out every year (a couple times).

No, the 49ers should not try to -- nor will they -- get Favre.

--Matt M.

In just looking at this list, it appears to me the 9ers, Denver, Buffalo, Detroit, and Minnesota have the biggest question marks at QB going into next season. Who knows how it will play out but questions at the QB spot don't portend well for an NFL team. As Matt says, QB is the most important spot on the field. I hope one of these guys establishes himself as the unquestioned starter for at least the next few years.

The questions already been answered: enter S-Dot-Hill. The Niners QB comp business is fluff. Don't get it twiested, it's S.Hill's job to lose.

for all those A.Smith hater, i have two words for you - Steve young -

...Young was deemed a bust and traded to the San Francisco 49ers on April 24, 1987, to serve as a backup.....

You sayin' A.Smith should be traded? *looking up to see if sky is falling*

Flip said..."It's nice to get a good feel of the quality of data that TOP_CAT bases his opinions upon".
-------------------------------------------
Although I was clearly joking in the first post in this thread,you however seem to have not got the joke (did you not notice the (wink) in the post?). So,what we know is that I was obviously joking and you were not bright enough to pick up on the joke and then felt you must attack me.
And of course you were in error once again in believing I base my opinion of Alex on any stats or data,I base my opinion of alex on what my eyes tell me when I watch all the games he has played when healthy. I have every one on video and sometimes I watch them over again in hopes that my memory of Alex as a complete failure are incorrect. Sorry to say that every time I watch them over he is still the same clueless ,talentless QB . I wish it were not so but sometimes reality hurts.

And OneNiner. Young was brought in as an insurance policy because JOE was becoming injury prone and had a bad back etc etc and Walsh was bringing in a QB with natural talent that he could bring along to take over for JOE. NOT TO BE A BACKUP. You could see on film that Steve had natural talent ,NFL film that is and the USFL film,not just in college.The only film on Alex is college,every NFL film on Alex just makes Alex look talentless,so Walsh would never have given a thought to Alex as a replacement for JOE in the same circumstances,so your alalogy does not fit in any way !
So,to quote you..."It's nice to get a good feel of the quality of data that Flip bases his opinions upon ".

Buffalo? No question mark there... Trent Edwards and a bunch of scrubs behind him.

Flip said..."It's nice to get a good feel of the quality of data that TOP_CAT bases his opinions upon".
-------------------------------------------
Although I was clearly joking in the first post in this thread,you however seem to have not got the joke (did you not notice the (wink) in the post?). So,what we know is that I was obviously joking and you were not bright enough to pick up on the joke and then felt you must attack me.
And of course you were in error once again in believing I base my opinion of Alex on any stats or data,I base my opinion of alex on what my eyes tell me when I watch all the games he has played when healthy. I have every one on video and sometimes I watch them over again in hopes that my memory of Alex as a complete failure are incorrect. Sorry to say that every time I watch them over he is still the same clueless ,talentless QB . I wish it were not so but sometimes reality hurts.

And OneNiner. Young was brought in as an insurance policy because JOE was becoming injury prone and had a bad back etc etc and Walsh was bringing in a QB with natural talent that he could bring along to take over for JOE. NOT TO BE A BACKUP. You could see on film that Steve had natural talent ,NFL film that is and the USFL film,not just in college.The only film on Alex is college,every NFL film on Alex just makes Alex look talentless,so Walsh would never have given a thought to Alex as a replacement for JOE in the same circumstances,so your alalogy does not fit in any way !
So,to quote Flip..."It's nice to get a good feel of the quality of data that Flip and Oneniner base their opinions upon ".

I COULDN'T BELIEVE THIS IS THE BLOG FOR TODAY. I WAS THINKING ABOUT OUR QUARTERBACK SITUATION, AND I THINK I HAVE A LONG-TERM ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEM.

SINCE WE HAVE TWO No. 1 PICKS FOR THE 2010 DRAFT, WE CAN SAVE THOSE PICKS UNTIL 2010, AND NOT TRADE THEM AWAY FOR BOLDIN, OR PEPPERS, OR QUINN.
WHEN THE DRAFT COMES AROUND, THEN WE CAN MAKE OUR MOVE, AND TAKE SAM BRADFORD, THE QB FROM OKLAHOMA. MAYBE WE CAN TRADE ONE OF THE FIRST PICKS WE HAVE TO MOVE UP AND GET BRADFORD. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST PICK IN THE DRAFT THIS YEAR, HAD HE COME OUT, GREAT TALENT WE CAN DEVELOP AT THE POSITION. I THINK WE SHOULD SERIOUSLY CONSIDER INVESTING IN A NEW QB FOR THE FUTURE. AND WITH BRADFORD, WE WOULD BE HITTING A HOME RUN. HAVING SAID THAT, I REALIZE THIS COULD BE INFATUATION TALKING, BUT JUST A THOUGHT.

....am saying as much as you wish it isn't possible or true, ....the same probability of hill succeeding as a niner is equal to the probability A.Smith becomes a hall of famer on another team.....

Amazing, a Young/Smith comparison. It's obvious Matt has not engaged the BS detector today.

HE from NJ: The problem with trading one or both of next years 1st rounders for a QB is that we already have the probabal Franchise QB of our future on the roster right now. Nate "the great" Davis has it all and was the steal of the draft .Getting him in the 5th round(when he was being talked about as a 1st rounder early last year,was a steal ! Because his undefeated team lost their last 2 games last season and because scouts learned that Davis has dyslexia and they fear he may not be able to learn an NFL playbook (an unfounded fear),Davis' stock fell and we were the lucky team that benifited from that mistake in judgement by the popular opinion of some misguided scouts.
Davis may turn out as the better QB over Bradford or McCoy or Sanchez or Stafford. Davis has the best arm of that bunch and seems to have every intangeble and he can scramble and is an accurate passer ,etc etc etc.
He has IT all ! So why throw away our #1's next draft ,when we can use those two picks to get a couple more playmakers ? Or maybe we can trade one for someone like Peppers?

Then, by that logic, next stop Canton for A.Smith.

Admittedly I haven't seen Buffalo play very much so take my opinon for what it's worth. I know Edwards had a few decent outings but I think his level of play really dropped off. I'd have to say he's a borderline scrub. Who would he start in front of on any other team? Could he beat out the starter on even 5 other teams?

Stampede: I actually wish Alex was on track to be a hall of famer and would lead us to the next 10 SB's in a row as the MVP etc.
I am called a Smith hater but in reality I like the kid and wish he had been as he was advertised. He plays football very poorly (even when healthy) and that has been the fact of the matter so far.
I am a Niner's fan and I will cheer for any Niners player who is on the field ! I just hope Alex does not get on the field unless he improves in almost every area of his pathetic game. But if he does,I will cheer for him to be the best QB in the NFL ! But I fear I will be greatly dissapointed.

9ers
cleveland
denver
minn
st louis
TB
Tenn
maybe Miami

Yeah I agree. Although I still think A.Smith can be very successful. Just not now, its not his time. He needs to sit behind S-Dot-Hill, perfect his craft and earn the trust of the team just as Hill has. A.Smith's development will go a lot smoother now, its just unfortunate that it took this long for the team to handle him correctly. I'm definately pulling for him though, no doubt.

Stampede: My only problem with waiting for alex to come around is that I believe that in a year or two that Nate Davis SHOULD be our starting QB ,if he lives up to his potential. If Davis becomes our long awaited Franchise QB,as I hope and suspect he will,then where does that leave Alex? As second string after we trade Hill or as 3rd string behind Hill ? Or do we showcase alex and trade him (but what value would he have ?).
You see my problem with waiting for alex to slowly come around? I think alex is done if he doesn't suddenly jump up and get the starting job right now or at least early in the year,if Hill gets hurt etc.

Wellp I'm at work and super bored so I'm going to take a pre preliminary shot at guessing the 9ers 53man opening day roster...

QB: Hill, Smith, Davis
RB: Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Sheets, Norris
TE: Davis, Bear, Walker
WR: Bruce, Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, Jones
OL: Heitman, Wallace, Baas, Rachal, Staley, Snyder, Wragge, Smith, Boone

(25 Offense)

LB: Willis, Spikes, Lawson, Haralson, Harris, McKillop, Ulbrich, Brooks
DL: Balmer, Evans, Smith, Sopoaga, Jean-Francois, Franklin
CB: Clements, Harris, Brown, Smith, Spencer, Hudson
S: Goldson, Lewis, Taylor, Williams

(25 Deffense)

ST: Nedney, Lee, Jennings, Rossum

(4 ST)

Only real surprises I'm predicting are Sheets as a 4th HB, Boone taking a T spot from Sims, McDonald doesn't make it and Roman and Battle get cut. If Sheets doesn't make it though I'm thinking Clayton finally does.

How far off am I??

Looks like I was one spot short...McDonald akes it

Pretty good evaluation PatBU ! Except I think Sheets should make it unless they PS him. And McDonald may be put on the PUP list .If he is not I think he makes the team because they seem to have high hopes for him if he actually ever gets healthy.

And hopefully Sims is a goner.

There are always surprises and even after the final cuts there are almost always one or two guys who are replaced by cuts from other teams. Our roster is pretty deep and talented now,so maybe only one or maybe none of the players who make the final cut will be replaced in the days after those cuts by other teams cuts?

I would think zeigler would make it, unless he still has PS eligibility.

Well, hopefully it wouldn't be too long before A.Smith can come around. But, S-Dot-Hill will be more durable and successful than folks think. He will be the next Niners playoff QB. If I was a football god, I would make it so that Hill is the starter, hands down. A.Smith and N.Davis can battle it out for the 2nd string spot. A.Smith is making back-up money now so there's no pressure (on the team) to make him the starter. If the comp is tough between Smith and Davis, then it's a win-win for the Niners b/c they'll have 3 really good QB's. Not a bad problem to have.

If you check his stats, he was pretty consistent throughout the year. Injuries slowed him down, as did playing the pats, apparently. Also don't forget that last year was his first full year as a starter (with nary a weapon behind Lee Evans) and he's now heading into only his third season.

learn WHAT from Hill exactly......you say Hill will be more durable and successful.:).....he has 8 yrs experience and he keeps telling himself that every yr.....8 yrs - when is enough enough......lol..u guys are comedians - 8 yrs and you still hope he will be durable for a whole season......as much as u wish - u won't put your money on it.....that is fact.

Well,Smith could learn how to lead and how to throw an accurate pass and how to read defenses and how to scramble to get away from a pass rush etc etc etc etc etc from Hill. But just watching does not cause such a miracle to happen.

And it is a fact that Hill has not needed to miss any games because of injury ,like smith has,so that seems to put an end to any argument over who is more durable. Or at least that Hill is at least as durable as the healed Smith (IF smith is healed ?)

I meant to type Many games not any games,in that last post.
Because I think Hill might have missed one game at the end of 2007 that he was going to start.But the staff thought there was no need to put him out there injured for the last game of the season.
But Hill did play quite a few games with a broken finger on his throwing hand,now didn't he? lol. That is pretty durable !

N.Davis is going to be on the practice squad,....McDonald is going no where, maybe on IR.....rossum might get cut...i am 50-50 on battle......

Me thinks it's a sad day when what we have to argue about is which is better, an 8-year back-up or a first round flop. When Garcia left I was ready for him to go; I had been spoiled. Come on Huard!

I'm not bettin' on it cus I'll take ALL your little milk money son, wouldn't be fair robbin' little kids like that. Anywho, I didn't necessarily mean "learn from Hill." What I meant was, Smith shouold let the offense become thoroughly ingrained in his mind before he steps back out on the field. His college coach said that when he knows it all, he's good. Until that time, Hill can win now.

SC - I'm certainly not arguing. I'm TELLING blog land, S-Dot-Hill is the starting QB for your, San Francisco 49ers. I'm just tryina wake everyone else up. The bandwagon is gassed up and ready my friend...and it's coming to a city/town near you.

SC Rick, i totally agree with what you said. it's too sad.

Let's face it we were spoiled Two Hall of Fame Qb's on the same team back to back. Guess how many times that has happeneed?

I only know of one other.

Well oneniner, you do have a point, however, two counter points. 1) Alex is still in the same situation that he has always been in (new OC/HC, unstable supporting cast) while Steve Young had a change of scenery with the trade. 2) Steve was deemed a bust at Tampa (2-14 in both '85 and '85 when Young was with the team. His fault? maybe....), and only when he had the chance to learn under Joe Montana (arguably the best QB ever) and Bill Walsh (THE best HC ever) did he flourish. Does Alex have that supporting cast that Steve Young had? The answer is an undoubted no.

And before anyone wants to start arguing about Steve Young. I'm not saying that he only won because of the team he had around him. I think that would be one of the stupidest arguments ever. Young is obviously supremely talented. Is Alex? Hopefully we find out sooner rather than later.

Stampede, I agree that Hill should be our starter, he's got the hot hand, showed the most success. You can check my other recent posts, I have felt that Smith does not deserve a shot at #1 until Hill blows it or gets hurt. I have also felt that the QB competition should be for the #2 spot, not between Smith and Davis, but Smith and Huard. I know some of the vocal posters here doubt Huard's ability--it is my opinion that his problems at KC were that there was little offense there and he kept getting hurt (same cause?). I also agree with your commentary that Smith should sit and learn. As we've pointed out, it is doubtful for a QB to make it the entire season, Smith should concentrate to be ready when that day comes. I am behind our coach, I hope our QB, whoever that may be, is good enough not to throw the games away.

Both Montana & Young benefited greatly by playing in Walsh's system and with so many talented players around them.

I sure do miss Walsh, I always had the feeling the 9ers should let him do one thing as long as he wanted, pick our QB's. He picked Montana, Young, Garcia, would have taken Plummer over Drunkenmiller. I wonder what he would have done with the #1 pick 5 years ago. sigh

No doubt Slick Rick, forgive me for neglecting Huard. I remember Huard did his thing in KC when it was his turn to step up. He's a real good depth QB.

I'm so high on S-Dot-Hill b/c it's abundantly clear that he has the team chemistry in his pocket. Evident since the time he came in after Dilfer went down in 07. The kid can ball. I still get hyped everytime I see that highlight of him diving sans helmet for the first down in that Monday night game last year against the AZ Fraudinals. And I'm just a fan, imagine how the players around him feel.

I think that if Alex does't beat out Sean, then he is expendable and we go with Huard and Davis as backups. Also, I think that the roster size is 53, not 54.

I'm a big Hill fan too and fully expect him to be the starter... Speaking of the Man, here's a good interview from yesterday.

I was real suspect about that whole Martz/O'Sullivan situation last year. Can you imagine what the season may have been last year if Hill had started from day one? S-Dot-Hill's been doubted his whole life. I'm juiced that he's going to get his shot. If he's successful, you wouldn't be able to write a better story.

*Handing Randy in SR 2 tickets to the S-Dot-Hill bandwagon*

Stampede, don't waste your breath my friend. Half of these guys that are hating on Shaun Hill are just trying to get a rise out of you. They have no life and get a hard on from coming on here and starting an arguement with someone. These are the same guys who were "Rollin with Nolan" 8 months ago (see oneniner) or riding the JTO bandwagon until it lost its wheels! Best of all, they will be riding Shaun Hill's jock midway through next season or acting like this never happend! LOL

Stampede - I presume you know Randy in SR has been pro S Hill as along as about anyone around here and has taken quite a bit heat about it. You're not alone- there are more than a few of us who back him...and also wish the best for A Smith as do you.I am with your consternation at the lack of respect S Hill has been shown(A Smith backers will echo that refrain I'm sure!) media , fans ,et al.-if he assumes the starting role from the start -the I told you so's will be sweet compensation!

TOP_CAT? Where do you get all this info on the "GREAT" Nate Davis? My nephew was a trainer at Ball State during Davis' time there and tells me the coaches consistently harped on the kid's problems with the position of his throwing arm at release of the ball. He throws like Vince Young and Colt Brennan. Neither have or are doing well in the NFL. Brennan was a rookie last year and was drafted by Washington as a "project in progress." Young lost his starting role to the 14 year vet Kerry Collins and then he tried suicide on for size.
If anything, Davis was drafted with the hopes the coaches can work with the kid to take out more than a few kinks. Or should I say hitches.
Everyone looks "great" in college ball or they wouldn't be drafted. Davis played in a weak conference (the MAC for gosh sakes!)and got a invitation and played in a Bowl game. Big Deal!
It's great you're a fan of his, but let's be a little more realistic. He hasn't taken a snap in the NFL and College ball isn't even close to being like the NFL. Other than the ball is pointed at both ends.

Man, the S-Dot-Hill bandwagon is strong.

*Handing 2 tickets to Ima Ninerfan and hightop*

Oneniner how you doin in that S-Dot-Hill bandwagon sidecar buddy???

Just moved over from the ESPN draft blog. The trash talking ws getting a little too thick. Just want to talk about the Niners!
This is the last roundup for Alex Smith. It's pretty obvious that he does not have #1 in the draft ability. It wasn't his fault that he was picked #1, but I veture to guess that if he were drafted in the 2nd round (where he should have been), he'd be gone by now. S.Hill? Best case scenario? Think Jack Delhomme. Hey, it's not Manning, but he did take a team to the Super Bowl!

If we take a QB next year it better be Timmy Tebow. A real leader who could take over for Hill. No other QB coming out has more heart, toughness, desire and will to win. All he needs is mechanical work. We would'nt have to trade a 1st round pick to get him because I believe he will go somewhere between 15 and 25.

Welcome to the best 49er blog hands down-things get a little prickly here sometimes as well but overall pretty good community -enjoy!

When selecting a qb in the draft these days you really have to trust your scouts. A.Smith, the Big 12 qbs, Tebow - all play or played in spread offenses. That's why most teams were so high on Sanchez. His translation from the USC O to the pro O is much easier to predict. Wow, Tebow certainly has all the intangibles, but can he throw effectively against NFL defenses? I certainly don't know. Bradford can certainly throw, but how will he adjust to having to read the entire field when making his drops? That seems to be the real problem with the spread qbs. It'll be interesting to see how high they go.

Well it is clear to me that if the season started next week Hill would be our starter. I believe that just about everyone feels the exact same way.

With that being said, it will require exceptional play in training camp and preseason by Alex Smith to win the starting job.

Only once we have seen this type of play with our own eyes can we begin to entertain the idea of starting Smith over Hill.

I do not blame Alex Smith for us not winning from 05-08, but I do have to give Hill credit for his wins. 7-3

IAN-agree S Hill has the edge in the "competition" a no rush approach to Alex will serve the team and his development more thoroughly...also agree no blame with Alex -just a series of events and circumstances did not sum up favorably! Fortunately S Hill has shown he has game-gotta like his tenacity and ability to win ...unlike his detractors I think he has post season potential- given the chance -and this could be his year to show it.

oldgiantfan, your observation about qb's who play the spread is dead on the money. QB's don't learn to read defenses while dropping back from taking a snap when they play in the spread. I remember Montana saying he hated the shotgun because it delayed his reads since he had to catch the snap. My only question is when is an NFL team going to run the spread offense as their base offense to capitalize on some of the talent in college. I have no idea if it would be successful but I think it will happen. If the 9ers take nose dive, perhaps they draft Tebow, McCoy, or Bradford and run the spread.

Hey Oldgiantfan. It's Rgil if you couldn't tell. I agree with that have said that exact same thing for awhile. Keep in mind that they usually only have a go to guy and a check down. It hurts them working through their progressions or they just have to throw it deep all the time. I feel the samething about Big 12 WR's. That's the only reason I'm worried about Crabtree is that Big 12 WR's are notorious for being overrated. I'm crossing my fingers though and I support the pick.

Giant, I disagree with you on one point, and it may be more semantics than anything. Alex Smith has #1 overall caliber ability, there is absolutely no doubt about that. He's 6' 5", has a good arm (he can "make all the throws"), scored 40 on the Wonderlic, and he has quick feet and good athleticism (31" vertical, 4.7 40yd). Beyond that, let's remember he was fourth in the Heisman voting and won the Fiesta Bowl as the very first BCS Buster, the year before Boise State did it. If you listen to the "experts" every year, they would have you believe that these measurables all but guarantee you a surefire, can't miss NFL quarterback every time. Even though they are wrong most of the time in their assessments. If you were to clone Alex Smith every year over a ten year stretch, he would probably be drafted high in the first round every year. Alex Smith will go down as a classic example of the flaws in the way NFL personnel people analyze quarterbacks. Otherwise, I couldn't agree with you more about the comments sections on other blogs and web sites. Too infantile for my taste.

Just for perspective ... had Alex Smith been in this draft class, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been graded a superior prospect to Matthew Stafford.

Take this for what's it worth but your comment was correct. Walsh told an associate of mine after the Niners drafted he would have taken Plummer. He said Drunkenmiller had slow feet. The Master was usually correct and the management didn't listen to him.

But then again how many times do you get a Hall of Fame Coach? And yes I do live with the Memories of the 80's Niners who always had a Game Plan that was amazing. It was a special era.

MM - You go on a much deserved hiatus and a mutiny breaks out at Team HQ's with the coaches?

No Coach Walkout In San Fran, Yet

There was a rumor making the rounds on Thursday that, on Tuesday, the 49ers’ assistant coaches had walked off the job in protest of the team’s decision to opt out of the league-run pension plan.

A source with knowledge of the situation disputed that rumor.

But, regardless of whether there was a walkout at the Jed York Football Company, there apparently is some degree of turmoil. As we understand it, management met with the coaches regarding the issue on Thursday afternoon. Here’s the simple reality: The decision of some teams to keep the pension plan as it is and the decision of others to change it to the detriment of the employees will make the teams that maintain the benefit more attractive to assistant coaches and scouts who are being wooed by a team that has maintained the pension plan, and by a team that hasn’t.

Here is a recent Tweed from Drew Rosenhaus that should make us all happy (Not that his agent would say anything otherwise):

"Frank Gore's late season ankle injury is now completely healed and is working hard this off season to get back to the Pro Bowl."
about 4 hours ago from Tweetie

7th round draft pick Ricky Jean-Francois I have been watching him. Check him out on You Tube. He has talent. I suspect this pick depends on the Coach Singletary's "It" factor. Can he light a fire in his belly? He can play DT, but can he be a professional?

its funny how you guys are trying to make up stuff to boost Hill's credentials.....lol....this is so ridiculous....

the only reason you say hill is the starter is cuz of his 7-3 wins last yr....

well i got news for you - WE HAVE A NEW OFFENSE, ....the idea that hill has a leg up to be the starter is the dumbest statement ever...leg up in WHAT?....to make matters worse the guy is not durable enough to play a whole season...

...i still say to the hill lovers - McGm is on my side - stampede(a wannabe gm) is on your side.....:)

do i really need to say more?.....

ha ha ha ha......hey Spitblood, you finally got KICKED OFF sfgate's blog, congrats to all of us who had to read your ignorant "all about the past" posts, along with your raiders avatar!
-
And now i hear you're over here spreading your whining pathetic crying :)......how long till you get banned from this site???........fish on dude!.......speaking of that, how's the bite up there in Redding right now?

Mr. Tebow would have the luxury of learning the mechanics of the position behind Hill, and Davis while at the same time run the wildcat or variation therein. His intangibles would be a mistake to pass on if you could get him 15-32.

WHAT?....tebow learn from hill and davis.....lol....i always knew your opinions were mostly off-da-wall, but this is pretty much borderline ignoramus.......what are you talking about?.....Tebow right now is better than hill and davis combined....

..."learn the mechanics" - lol....lmao...- well i shouldnt be suprised - it is ur brain!!!!

OneNiner, your heart's in the right place, but you NEVER need to say more.

My opinion is that part of the equation that is missing is the situation that QB is going into. Some teams think that just having an unproven QB on the roster is going to make them win games. I'm not saying a QB isn't important. I'm just saying it's more the icing on the cake instead of the cake itself. You have to have a team built and that QB should be the finishing touch. Look at the Steelers in 03'. They had a fluke bad year and they were a pretty good team with a really good D. I think they draft 9th or 10th that year and got Rothlesburger. A.K.A. Meathead! Two years later they win the SuperBowl and last year they won it again. Teams like us in 05' and Det this year really didn't have a good team to build on. We built a pretty good team. You can end up building a team around that QB but what happens is when you aren't that successful right away you blame it on that QB. You want to give up on him and label him BUST. The reason why we have built up a pretty good team is that we've had low draft picks from the last 4 years. My Opinion with A. Smith (I wasn't in favor of the draft pick but he is a niner. I root for him and I don't want to see him fail.) Is that he has bad luck. The changing OC's are one thing, The shoulder injuries are another. JT O'Sullivan being Martz's guy from the moment he got here. Now we have pretty good team. With some pretty good weapon options for him. So now the bad luck for him is that Shaun Hill came in last year and performed well. I think with this team this year Smith could really succeed if given the chance. I do agree he can't use those things as an excuse because they don't matter anymore. He's a good smart kid and It will be a good thing for niner nation if succeeds. My thoughts are that he's only had 30 starts in his career. Most QB's aren't given up on after 30 starts. Ecspecially that he hasn't been able to show anything from his pretty good 06' campaign due to his shoulder injury.

Dude... just go away. You probably make more people turn from Smith than actually root for him.

Just read something that we might be interested in Joe Horn?? Anyone else heard anything about this?

I would have picked up that Walsh would have taken Plummer from the press, and if memory serves, it was probably a couple of years after we picked Drunkenmiller. Before I knew what the combine was I remember reading it was a big deal casue drunkenmiller could bench as much as an OL, I figure this info had to have come from the combine (yep, that is a key attribute for an NFL QB--NOT!). I also seem to recall that when the 9ers made the pick it was known that Walsh was to regain some authority, but at the time of the draft he was a consultant.

I saw the same thing, hopefully just a rumor, we don't need Horn.
http://blog.theredzone.org/ViewItem.asp?Entry=1350

I don't know that he is better than Davis but he is not better than Hill with respect to his throwing mechanics and running a pro style offense. My reference to him learning from our new QB's coach behind Hill and Davis is obviously predicated on the fact we cut A.Smith and desire another QB to replace him. Your personal attacks on my intelligence is most unsavory and if you wish to be respected on this blog might I suggest you do an internal evaluation. Thank you and have a good day sir.

Take it to the bank, Walsh did not want Drunkenmiller. It was one of the moves of Dwight Clark that showed he wasn't an NFL player evaluator. They ran the west coast offense and took a slow QB. Plummer would have gone on to greatest in the system.

On a different issue I have been looking over McCloughan's picks in the draft. Honestly I have complained about him as much as anyone, but this last draft could be real good when you add in the free agency signings. It's a good sign and one that back-ups up the idea Coach Singletary brings out the best in everyone.

dude....i didnt mean to hurt your feelings...i just have a habit of speaking the truth......

Uh, Hill has something Smith doesn't have (or at least hasn't shown)... Leadership ability. Hill commands the huddle and has his teammates respect. As Sing said on NFL.com, he'll let the huddle decide and we all know who that's gonna be...

Nah, I don't think S-Dot-Hill should be the starter just because he has a winning record, and finished last year with 13 TDS, 2,046 YDS, and an 87.5 Passer RTG. Naaah nah nah, that would be absurd. I mean, he didn't set himself on fire, or disappear in thin air or anything like that. Until he levitates and/or walks on water, he should warm the bench.

To say you're reaching would be an understatement, would be an understatement. Not only are your personal attacks most unsavory, your whole line of logic is most unsavory. Make like butt-cheeks and split my friend.

*detaching oneniner's sidecar from the S-Dot-Hill bandwagon*

Marco, I've also had my doubts about McGM, not to the extent that I've called for his firing, but have wondered about his ability to be the guy. I do believe that he set himself apart and picked up very good players this year. The only thing I still wonder about is letting our #2 $ #4 spots go for Carolina's #1 next year. Maybe hind-site will prove this to have been a brilliant move, but for a team that was in need of a pass rush, wouldn't Everett Brown have been a good add for us as it was deemed to be for carolina? I don't see any reason to debate whether it was a good move or not, it's done and time wil tell.

"because he has a winning record, and finished last year with 13 TDS, 2,046 YDS, and an 87.5 Passer RTG." - ...

...lol 7-3 is your winning record..lmao....

..after 8 yrs in the league this is the record you are proud of?....lol...lmao

...ok so this are your reasons why he should be the starting QB?...

...i actually thought yu were rooting for him cuz he enjoys fishing.....:)

What are your reasons for wanting Smith, he hasn't done anything hill hasn't done

its very simple - "its all about business" - I am looking at the future..

...who has a better chance of leading us to a superbowl
.....who has a better chance playing QB for a whole year...
.......why should the niners spend so much money on an average QB Hill(if does well) when they could invest in A.Smith who has a better upside than hill...

....last time i checked A.Smith played a full season - Hill has not

....bottom line A.Smith can produce the same numbers as Hill, not that Hill is bad but A.Smith has the time to be waaay better than Hill....

Its business first - I can care less about anyone's fav QB.....

.....looking at the business side of things...A.Smith is the better and reasonable investment at QB

"I think that if Alex does't beat out Sean, then he is expendable and we go with Huard and Davis as backups."

There is absolutely no reason to keep Huard over Smith. Well, unless Smith completely tanks in the preseason. Huard is old and was injured much of last year. Not what you want in a backup. He's a camp arm, exactly what he was signed for.

The concerns about Crabtree coming from a spread offense are justified. However, the kinds of routes which he so spectacularly ran at TT, slants, hooks, short outs, etc., just might fit nicely into the kind of passing game we probably will need this year with IMO our rather mediocre O-line. Looks like a lot of 3-step drops for our qb, whoever it will be. Hey, what was Jerry Rice's most productive route? That's right, the slant. Remember, he was too slow coming out of the draft also. I doubt Crabtree is the 2nd coming of Mr. Rice as I doubt anyone, including Crabtree, can match Rice's work ethic. But I still think he has a Pro Bowl future.

when smith played the entire season what was the 9ers record? While durability is an important trait it is not the primary, besides, has Hill's durability truely been tested? For Smith to become the long-term answer for the 9ers he has a lot to prove, a lot to over-come. He's had his chance, he rec'd the automatic starts. He did not live up to the challenge and now he now must prove that he is worthy of getting back on the field (he's lucky to have this 2nd opportunity). Before Hill played for us, I remember many calling for him, the old line about the 2nd string QB being the most popular guy on the team has basis. I was concerned as I did believe there was a reason he had been a career back-up, his winning record came as a pleasant surprise to me and I am willing to ride the band wagon as long as he performs. And I think you do care about favorites as your love of Smith has no fact, the only other conclusion I can come up with is that you enjoy being a s--- disturber. Or you live in a fantasy world, suffering from frequent disappointment.

Jean-Francois has first round talent, there's no doubt about that. It's all about work ethic and consistency with him, though. If the coaching staff can turn him into an NFL player, the niners will have gotten one hell of a steal in the 7th.

i refuse to put too much emphasis on the so called wining record - especially when the wins came in the second half of the season....

....am too much of a football nut - to even see that has an accomplishmnt...

....."suffering from frequent disappointment." - dude ...I am a NINER - what do u ecpect?

Anybody else weary of the qb discussion? I doubt that any of us has somehing to say that hasn't been said, oh about 50 times each. Hill goes to camp as #1, based on past performance, just as it should be. But I wouldn't say that he is a solid #1. Smith no longer has the advantage of being a really high-priced player that the team feels obligated to play. If he out-performs Hill, he should win the job. If not, then he's either a backup or gets cut. Trade value? If he doesn't win the job, his trade value is next to nothing, IMO. and Oneniner, I don't recall Hill ever missing a game due to injury. Smith has been seriously injured several times.

i refuse to put too much emphasis on the so called wining record - especially when the wins came in the second half of the season....

....am too much of a football nut - to even see that has an accomplishmnt...

So, I guess you are odds with Singletary's comment: "I just want winners." Listen to the quotes of all the great qbs in history, and somewhere you will find that each one said, "The only stat that matters for a qb is wins and losses." The fact that the wins came in the second half of the season is irrelevant. A much more relevant argument would have been to question the ability of the opposition.

"The only stat that matters for a qb is wins and losses". - if that is the case how come grossman is a FA - didnt he take the bears to the superbowl....

...."The fact that the wins came in the second half of the season is irrelevant" = I DISAGREE

Tim Tebow Just Wins! The guy is the real deal. That is one impressive human being. You take that kid. His intangibles and his incredible ability to learn and adjust and just win are astonishing. That kid might change the game of football. If my children grow up to be anything near the human being that Tim Tebow is I will consider my life totally full filled. That young man is a very bright spot in a some time depressing planet.

strong opinions about tebow.....how will he change football?......and what do you mean bright spot?....is it cuz he his an evangelist or because he scores td's?

You reminded me of Silver's article back in 07 re the Druck. Bench pressing a parked car – now that's a talent show.

The primary reason why I was never sold on "pool jumper" Jarron Gilbert.

What makes a great NFL player in college? Who knows, but its clear the NFL doesn't have it down. Bill Walsh was great at that yet he made mistakes.

McCloughlan's decision to grap another first round pick might be a great one. Next years draft is supposed to be better

I am just more hopeful the franchise has turned the corner. Let's see how they do on the field in games.

It turned the day Coach dropped his pants, kicked VD off the field, and said to all. Not gonna Happen Here!

Yes Sir!

What Tebow does for his church and community (both domestically and internationally) makes his Texan counterpart, Colt McCoy, look like an atheist.

JHB – I'm in Tebow's corner as well. He's an athletic Shaun Hill IMO. We don't need to put that extra #1 pick in a safety deposit box for a quarterback next year. Bradford will be gone in the top three spots, and Tebow could be another mid-round steal.

All this QB speculation is just mind-numbing. I don’t believe in doing 53-man rosters so early, but with PatBU as my inspiration, here goes...
QB: SHill, ASmith, NDavis/Huard
RB: Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Norris
TE: VDavis, Pascoe, Walker
WR: Bruce, Crabtree, Morgan, JHill, Jones, Battle
OL: Heitman, Wallace, Baas, Rachal, Staley, MSmith, Snyder, Wragge, Bender
(25 Offense)
LB: Willis, Spikes, Lawson, Haralson, Harris, McKillop, Ulbrich, Moore/Brooks
DL: Balmer, Evans, JSmith, Sopoaga, McDonald, Franklin
CB: Clements, Harris, Brown, Spencer, Hudson, RSmith
S: Goldson, Lewis, Taylor, Roman
(24 Defense)
ST: Nedney, Lee, Jennings, Rossum
(4 ST)
Guaranteed – At least 1 of these players will be on IR before the season starts (McDonald?), probably moore (pun intended).
I’ve fallen down and can’t get up – If McDonald does make it back, Jean-Francois would seem a prime candidate to be IRedshirted. Of course, then he can’t practice with the team. We might risk him on PS – only 12 players were drafted after him.
Concerns – I was a little surprised at the switch of Reggie Smith to safety. Along with Strickland’s departure, it leaves us light at CB. I’ve switched him back, to give a more traditional 6/4 DB blend.
Watch the waiver wire – Most likely spots for a veteran upgrade look to be CB, LB, and OL.
Long shot dark horse – We sure are trying a lot of S-CB conversions. I hope it doesn’t mean we’re short of guys that can cover from the LOS. Not saying it will happen, but if Michael Lewis is cut, I’m claiming credit for mentioning the possibility first.
Won’t touch this – I’m not declaring any starters here; calling Davis/Huard and Moore/Brooks toss-ups.

PS: Sheets, Boone, Jean-Francois, Washington, Word-Daniels (or other UDFA CB) + 3

OK oneniner. We'll have to agree to disagree. But I'll have to go with the comments of Hall of Famers like Montana, Unitas, et al about winning. And Rex was the starter until be started losing. If he had keep winning Cutler would be somewhere else. Alex Smith is a "wonderful human being," but as a fan that would only serve as icing on the cake if he were to perform at a wonderful level on the field. Would you rather have an ordinary qb who is an "impressive human being," or an extraordinary qb who is just a regular guy?

Let's keep Tim Tebow in perspective. He has never in his life played quarterback as it is played in the NFL. He is a tremendous athlete, football player, and a leader ... but he has nothing in his resume that really translates to playing quarterback in the NFL. He will be in the club of excellent college quarterbacks who either did not play or did not play well in the NFL, a club with a lot of members ... Tommy Frazier, Charlie Ward, Danny Wuerffel, Tim Couch ... Alex Smith?

this is to long winded for somebody like me...
Life like football is cyclical, what we now see with the wildcat it is part of the deepest roots of football. How the game has changed plays well with the rules of today and the old single wing. The wing is a powerful formation and then you add the athletes of today along with the complexity of the passing game. I mean running the signal wing from a spread formation is going to change the way the game is played. Tim Tebow can run and throw and is very durable. He is not going to be able to take 20 shots a game but 5 to 10 shots a game I think he would hold up. I think having teams bunch the line and have one on one coverage to the wide outs with wide open middle of the football field spells doom for a defense. With Tebow gashing the line or pitching as he is about to hit the line or faking a dive and rolling out and tossing it down field, running over a couple of DB’s.. It’s just my vision of the future of football and I think the kid will pioneer it. The NFL is more of a stand up game now and fluidity on the line of scrimmage is so different than even 20 years ago.
If you don’t know why Tim Tebow is a bright spot on this planet then you don’t know much about this young man. I couldn’t do him justice. I am just a huge fan of his. A great great kid. With all that said above everything else he is a natural leader and a winner.

As probably the only one on this blog who actually saw the single wing in action (UCLA with Billy Kilmer at tailback) I think I can speak from a relatively educated position. The single wing is an offense based on speed and deception. The last teams to use it were teams that we being physically outmatched. So let's trick and try to outrun them. Many small high school teams across the country still use it for that very reason. The spread also springs from the same roots, since it is easier to find little fast guys than big, strong guys. The reason these offenses don't tranlate well to the NFL is that NFL defenses are big, strong, AND fast. Once the deception wears off, it is ineffective.

Trick offenses have been tried before in the NFL. Take the early 60's when the 49ers started the "shotgun" offense. They sprung in in midseason, using 3 different rotating qbs: John Brodie, Billy Kilmer (yes, same guy I just mentioned), and Muddy Waters. They used it every play. They ran up large score victories for a few weeks with Kilmer (who eventually became a pretty good RB for the Niners and then a gritty qb for the Saints and Redskins) and Waters running the ball and Brodie both running and passing. Then they played the Chicago Bears, who had by now had time to game plan against it, and lost 31-0. That was the end of that. They tried it in the same fashion for a couple more weeks with little success, eventually going back to there base pro-set. They continued to use it, sparingly, and many teams eventually went to it in obvious passing situations. You hopefully noticed that the Wildcat, very effective when Miami popped it, became less and less effective as the season wore on. I think you'll still see it as a changeup, but from experience, I don't envision Tim Tebow or Pat White sitting in it play after play. In order to play in the NFL, a qb must be able to function under center.

Like I said, it's the way i see things in today's NFL. The spread is already making a presence felt in the NFL. Like I said the game is almost day and night from the 60's to today's NFL....Just the way I think things are going. Funny thing about that shotgun...it sure didn't last long did it.
Nobody ran the ball 5 years ago from the shotgun either with the consistency they do today. With all do respect OldGiantsFan you might be off here a tad bit. The game is just a few years from what I said or it going to revert back to the football of the 50's and 60's. But with today's rules, Why? It's just my vision and I think Tebow can make that vision happen.

None of the QB's you reference were in the athletic, leadership, toughness fraternity that Mr. Tebow resides. All of these traits are essential for success in the NFL. Like I stated before the mechanics of playing the position are his only weakness and with the right QB coach that can be rectified rather quickly. After that the possibilities are endless for Timmy Tebow and I for one would much rather have him on our team as a rookie QB than A.Smith,McCoy, or Bradford.

The problem with the spread in the NFL is that there are too many quality athletes. The spread in college takes advantage of the fact that most colleges don't have 5 or 6 quality DB's to combine with an DL/Rush that would kill most QB's.

The biggest problem is that you can really only run draws out of the spread, so it is difficult to keep defenses honest. The Colts tried to run a shotgun spread a few years ago to pretty good effect - then they ran into trouble in the playoffs

"with the right QB coach that can be rectified rather quickly" is a statement I strongly, and with all due respect, disagree with. I look at Tim Tebow as a better brought up, less thuggish version of Michael Vick. His whole life has been one constant line of "Kid, you are a great athlete, go out-athlete the other team and we will win". Tim Tebow has never in his life been in a position where he has been seriously asked to throw the ball. Systemically, it is not in his nature, it is not in his muscle memory, and it is not something he has demonstrated a capacity for. At no fault of his own, to be fair. However, he is at an extreme disadvantage because of it. If it is something that can ever be "fixed", I can't see it happening "rather quickly".

Make that two people who saw the single wing in action. Many don't know that pulling guards and trap plays were some of the innovations of single wing offenses. The QB in the single was usually not the person who took the snap and blocked for the tailback.

Ted Tebow will be a great NFL Player. He has "IT."

OldGiantfan, I do agree with you that it's all about winning yes but, I have to disagree that a 7-3 record over a 9 year period is enough is a proper barometer of success. If a N. Davis wins his very first game of his career, technically that makes him a winner. I still wouldn't bet my franchise on him. I'm not taking away from what Shaun Hill has done. I'm rooting for Smith but I want the best QB that puts us in the better position to win games. I'm not sold that it's Smith and, I'm not sold that it's Hill. Only 1 of Hill's wins this year came against a team with a winning record. The Jet's and We now know that B. Favre had a tore Biceps muscle from the week before. 1 win against an 8-8 Washington. 1 win against a team that has the same record, Buffalo. Every other team Hill won against No wins against play off teams. Every other team he won against the highest pick was 4 in this years draft. I'm sorry but that's not that impressive. 07' pretty much the same story. Of the 2 games he won one came against a winning record, T.B. 1 against a losing record in the Bengals. In terms of competition he really hasn't won against good teams. In A. Smith's 06' season he beat the Seahawks twice that won the division. He won against the Bronco's that went 9-7 The Rams that went 8-8 The niners went 7-9 that year.

St. Louis releases LB Tinoisamoa??
We could use some more depth at ILB

St. Louis released Tinoisamoa

St. Louis released Tinoisamoa

The combined records from the teams in 07' and 08' that S. Hill beat 42-54. The combined records of teams that beat S. Hill 29-19.

With all due respect right back at ya I disagree. He has been working on his throwing mechanics via computer aid aggressively year 2 to present day. This tells me he acknowledges his weakness in his game and is willing to take the steps necessary to fix it. He has come a long way from where he first was. You ask any pro ie: Jaws, Young they all say "these are things that can be fixed". The intangibles aforementioned that he possesses of which A.Smith has little or no supply of cannot be fixed. I mentioned that they can be taken care of rather quickly relatively speaking being that he would have the luxury of being 3rd in depth behind Hill and Davis, his work ethic and the fact he has already taken the steps in progressing his throwing technique. I would say within a year and a half you would be watching him execute a pro style offense very, very effectively.

05' for A. Smith the teams he won against were only 8-24 and the teams he lost against were 54-26. 4 of the 5 teams he lost to in 05' were playoff teams and 2 of them were division winners.
In 06' the teams Smith won against were 37-59. Those included two wins over Seattle that won the division and Denver that went 9-7. The teams he lost against were 77-51. That includes 7 playoff teams in which 6 of them won their division.
Shaun Hill has only played against 3 playoff teams and he's only won 1 of them against TB last year.

Yeah, I noticed that Pisa Tinoisamoa was available, too. He's a bit pricey to pick up on waivers, but I'm guessing he'll clear for that reason. Once he's on the open market, we should see what it would take to get him. I only see him twice a year, but it seems like he would be an upgrade over Ulbrich.

Plus, I just posted "Watch the waiver wire – Most likely spots for a veteran upgrade look to be CB, LB, and OL."

For the record, when you say that only one of Hill's victories came against teams with winning records you are correct.

However, Kurt Warner, for example, only won TWO games (both at home) against teams with winning records (Miami & Dallas) last year.

Beyond that, a closer look reveals this:

Miami was a playoff team last year, right? Well, not exactly. The Cardinals played the Dolphins in week two last year. The Dolphins lost their opening game a week before against the Jets.

That means that when you factor in Miami's 1-15 record in 2007, they were 1-16 when they lost to Arizona. Kurt Warner and company didn't beat a playoff team, they beat a 1-16 team.

After that game, Miami went 11-3. Timing is everything.

As far as Dallas goes:

A). The Cardinals had to go to overtime.
B) Dallas lost both their starting QB and their punter in that game.

The argument that 'so & so" really didn't beat many winning teams is almost meaningless.

Unless you play in a division that has one or two winning teams (Pittsburgh & Baltimore) (Giants/Eagle/Cowboys)
a team is likely only to win one or two games against winning teams.

I agree that Tebow can be a good pro. I just think it will have to be out of a more standard pro offense and not the spread or wildcat. And rgil, I'm not really happy with Hill at qb, just think that winning against even not-so-great competition gives him the edge in OUR situation. Wow, I would guess that you could count on one hand the number of teams on which he would have the same opportunity.
We should have no interest in Tinoisamoa. He's more of an outside 4-3 guy and would be too expensive to be a backup at inside LB. Our 5th round draft pick is a much better option there.

Great points Geo! All this deep analysis, while intellectually stimulating, is hurting my brain! I truly enjoy the high level of thinking in most everyone's arguments, even if I don't always agree.

Geo, I don't understand what you are arguing against. Regardless of what Miami was in 07' by the start of 08' They were a different team. Regardless if they lost the first game or not they were 0-0 to start the season. You can't tell me that making off season transactions and a whole new coaching staff with a new wild cat offense doesn't make a difference. Oh yeah, Chad Pennington,Franchise LT and, Two healthy RB's have nothing to do with it. So yes when Miami played Arizona they were still a playoff team. You can't really pick out what you want to argue to make your point look better. I think it has no basis what so ever. My whole point was that 10 games started in 9 years is not enough of a barometer for success and ecspecially against sub par competition.

I don't know if you are comparing Warner to Hill or what convaluded point you're trying to make. If you're trying to say Hill is better than Warner then why did we make such a big stink to try and get Warner in here. So what are you excuses and justififactions are you going to give to why Arizona, Dallas and Miami beat us this year. You bring up the whole Dallas win. They still won that game no matter what. Regardless they put themselves in the best chance to win it and was good enough to win it. I know you're a niner fan and as am I. You really can't take away from what they accomplished. Where your arguement was wrong is that Arizona and K. Warner beat 3 playoff teams last year in the playoffs and was only 1 defensive stop away from beating the SuperBowl champions. What's your excuse for them beating ATL in the first round, your excuse for beating the pathers and, I know you have an excuse for them beating the Eagles!!!

I'm arguing against this. Hill (one game against a winning team) SB QB Warner (two games).

Where I come from, there's not a huge difference between one and two.

Also, keep this in mind:

Warner: 16 starts.
Hill: 8 starts.

Now, where I come from, that's twice as many starts by Warner than Hill. Twice as many chances to beat a winning team.

As far as the playoffs, you really can't compare that because Hill didn't play those games.

I'm not saying that Hill is better than Warner (he's not).

I'm just saying that that whole 'How many winning teams did he beat' is somewhat meaningless.

Cutler beat three winning teams in (like Warner) sixteen starts. So what?

As far as all the additions to the Dolphins, here's the reality. Most teams with all-new staffs take a little while to get it all together, which might explain why Miami lost 4 out of their first 6 games.

Relax dude. Here's my point: When you say Hill only beat one winning team, that doesn't sound very good. Until you start to understand some things:

A). He only started eight games.
B). As I said earlier, unless you play in a division that has two or more winning teams, you will probably find that other QB's (like Warner and Cutler, for example) aren't too far off of what Hill did.

OR

Unless your team wins 11, 12, 13 games.

This is not real complicated.

WANT ANOTHER ONE? Pro-Bowl QB Drew Brees beat . . . (drum roll please) TWO winning teams.

Aaron Rodgers . . . THREE teams

Do you see a pattern here rg131? Cause I sure do!

Fans of other NFL would probably get a good chuckle about our intense arguments concerning Hill and Smith. If I were, say a Philly fan, I'd say, "Who cares, they both stink." But they are who we have. Unfortunately, as I said earlier there are only a handful of teams in which our guys would even be in the discussion: maybe Buffalo, or Denver, Minnesota(but not after they brought in a comparable guy in Rosenfels), maybe the Jets until Sanchez is ready. Collins in Tennesse, but his vast experience would probably give him the edge there. I predict that Hill (or Smith) will outperform Cassel, but neither would beat him out due to his contract. They'd probably get a good look in St. Louis. Maybe in Washington as it seems they aren't happy with Campbell. But as you can see, neither of our guys would be a clear cut starter even in these rancid situatons.

The reason that Jay Cutler is in Chicago (and not, say Washington) is that Josh McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton, and not say, Jason Campbell as his QB.

That's why the Broncos traded with the Bears.

Not saying that Orton is as good as Cutler, but McDaniels obviously liked what he saw in the guy.

And I KNOW that I'm the only person here who saw both those guys play all last year. I saw every game that Hill played in SF and every game that Orton played except in Chicago for one.

You can win with either of those guys. They both have winning records for a reason; they can play.

They are not flashy and both struggle some with the deep ball, but both are excellent leaders and can play well enough to win with.

When you don't have a great QB (like a Brady, Manning, etc) you can still win in the NFL. It is a little tougher. You just need everybody else to pick-up their game a little bit.

This formula will win a lot of games in the NFL:

1. Play good, solid defense.
2. Run the ball well.
3. Make some big plays in the passing game.
4. Limit stupid penalties and drive-killing turnovers.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree because I do think it's relevant when you are comparing one QB to another QB for that same starting job to compare the competition they have faced. You said it yourself he only had 8 starts last year. If you are going to use his 5-3 record in his favor, Then it is fair to see what competition he's played against. You see it all the time in college smaller schools don't have nearly as many draft picks because lack of competition. Ecspecially at the QB position. You see it in the preseason. QB's that are taking snaps with the second team with great stats aren't heralded as the starters that are playing against the first teams. The point is I'm not comparing Hill to any other QB in the league because it isn't relevant. I'm comparing him to A. Smith. Two guys that are fighting for the same job. Only arguement the pro Hill guys have are his 5-3 record last year. I really think it is relevant to what teams he won and lost against. Why isn't that a fair question? In 06' A. Smith played against much harder competition than Hill did last year. Either way 8 games starting in 1 year isn't enough of a barometer to proclaim someone as the starting QB. There is a reason he hasn't started the last nine years. Until last year he wasn't even the second stringer. He was 3rd string for the last 8 years. There isn't a coincidence there. JTO was the same way and we see where that got us. BTW it does count if Warner takes his team to the playoffs and beats 3 playoff teams in the playoffs. You can't not count that because it goes against yoru arguement.

I think you bringing up the whole Kyle Orton thing kind of contradicts your own arguement. For one that K. Orton should have or be a starter. By your arguement R. Grossman shouldn't have never lost his job. Grossman played good enough and won enough games as a starter to take his team to the Super Bowl. By the Shaun Hill initiative as I call you guys, Your theory is that Grossman would be your man. He accomplished more therefore he's your starter. Orton never won enough to take his team to the SuperBowl as a starter. What did Chicago ever accomplish with Kyle Orton as a starter? Right?

You go round and round and round and round . . .

AND YOU STILL, MISS A SIMPLE F'ING POINT!

Much earlier, rg131, you made a comment that Hill 'only beat ONE team with a winning record.'

Remember that? You didn't say it as a compliment, did you?

All I did, was VERY SIMPLY, point out, that in the REGULAR SEASON, I'll repeat, REGULAR SEASON, you can say pretty much say CLOSE to the same thing for a lot of OTHER QB's. Like Kurt Warner, who has two.

My ESSENTIAL POINT WAS THIS (For the last time!): You can hate Shaun Hill, for all I care. You can think he's the worst QB in all the world, for all I care.

You can show me stats after stats after stats to prove your point, for all I care.

Just don't tell me that "He only beat a FEW teams with winning records, OK"

Why's that Geo? Why doesn't that matter to you, Geo? Why's that a BS point, Geo?

Because . . . If you look at any team that only won 6, 7, 8 9 or even 10 games, the odds (and the facts) are PRETTY good that only a handful of those victories came against teams with winning records.

The 49ers WON seven games last year. They played EIGHT teams with WINNING records, EIGHT teams with LOSING records.

Still with me? They won ONE game against a winning team, and SIX games against losing teams. Kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

It does make sense to win more games against weaker teams, than the better teams, doesn't it?

I mean, that makes more sense than them winning SIX games against WINNING teams, but only ONE against LOSING teams, now doesn't it?

What part of this is SO difficult for you to understand.

By the way, the Arizona Cardinals, JUST LIKE THE SF 49ers, ALSO played EIGHT teams with winning records and EIGHT teams with LOSING records. Just like the Niners.

They only won TWO games against WINNING teams. The other seven against LOSING teams.

Let's recap:

49ers: 1 win against winning teams, 6 against losing teams.

Cardinals: 2 wins against winning teams, 7 wins against losing teams.

I don't know where you went to school, but where I went to school, 1 & 6 is PRETTY F'ING close to 2 & 7!!!!

Your argument that Shaun Hill should be diminished because he only beat ONE team with a winning record is NONSENSE.

Ron Jaworski (you've heard of him, haven't you) said that in the regular season, Kurt Warner has played QB about as well as anybody in 2007 & 2008.

Kurt Warner beat ONE team with a winning RECORD in 2007 and TWO teams with a winning RECORD in 2008!

Get it? Two seasons . . . . ONLY THREE TEAMS WERE BEATEN WITH WINNING RECORDS! This, by a guy that Ron Jaworski said played the quarterback position about as well as anybody else in the past two years.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, KEEP REREADING THE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH UNTIL IT SINKS INTO THAT HARD HEAD OF YOURS!

Ron Jaworski NEVER brought up how many teams Warner beat with a winning record! And neither should you.

Now, speaking of school . . . CLASS DISMISSED!!

BTW: I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this SIMPLE concept. I really do. Perhaps you should've been held back a few grades here and there!

I'll keep it simple for you. If Hill plays harder competition then we aren't bragging about his 5-3 record this year. So take it however you want. I don't care what you say I feel that it's a fair question. If he was 25-18 sure. 5-3 just isn't that much to brag about and the guy shouldn't be annointed starter because of that.

You know if A. Smith plays and loses against the Steelers and gets benched. Then S. Hill comes in and beats the Lions. It shouldn't matter?

You make a good argument about Tebow. The fact that he is working hard to rectify a deficiency in his game speaks volumes about his character and makeup, which I respect greatly. As I mentioned in my comparison (favorable by the way) of him to Michael Vick, Vick never would have gone out of his way to "fix" his game. However, a pro style offense is something Tebow is not going to run at Florida. Even if he develops his throwing mechanics, he is only going to run the exact same spread offense Alex Smith ran. Let's remember, they had the same coach.

Oh my God. You just can't let this go, can you (and you certainly can't figure it out, no matter how hard I try).

If Hill plays harder competition (you write) . . . YOU PLAY WHO'S ON YOUR SCHEDULE, DUDE.

Listen, I just told you that HOF bound, former league & SB MVP QB Kurt Warner ONLY BEAT THREE teams with winning records in the last two years, DURING THE REGULAR SEASON.

Please, please, comment on that statistic. Please.

I am anxiously awaiting how you, rg131, interpret that.

Please. In light of your comment that Hill only beat ONE winning team in EIGHT games, please tell me your thoughts about Kurt Warner, in the 2007 & 2008 regular seasons, ONLY beating THREE winning teams in 27 starts.

Actually, Hill started TWO games in 2007 & EIGHT games in 2008. For a total of TEN starts in the past two seasons. warner? 27 starts in the past two seasons, IN THE REGULAR SEASON.

Let's look at this more closely, shall we?

Shaun Hill: TWO victories against WINNING teams in 10 starts.
Kurt warner: THREE victories against WINNING teams in 27 starts.

Actually, in 2007 & 2008 Shuan Hill had a HIGHER percentage of wins against winning teams (20%) than did Kurt Warner (11%).

Get it????????????

Am I saying that Hill is better than Warner? Of course not. I AM saying that your criteria (winning starts against winning teams) in NONSENSE!

Class dismissed!

You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink it. This guy is obviously hating on Hill. He can scrape together all the reasons he thinks Hill will not succeed that he wants, but that will not change the fact that Hill will finally get his shot this year. I wanted Alex to succeed as much as anybody, but for us its going to be Hill. The guy has been hated on because of his past. Even though he has shown an uncanny ability to make plays, to avoid pressure, to make accurate throws and to come back late in the game, some people can not let go of his past and the fact he doesn't have a cannon. His passes are not all that pretty but he has a little magic I think.

Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!! Geez, guys. There's no meat left on the bone. Give it to the dog.

I just want the best guy to win either way. Not hating on Hill I just don't a 7-3 record is enough to guarantee that he starts. If Hill comes out and outperforms Smith in training camp and preseason, then oh well great. Whatever. The point is there should be a fair competition no matter what going into the season. I don't think A. Smith has performed with excellence. I do think before he got injured in 06' he showed good improvement over 05' with flashes of being that guy. If you take all of 06' and the first three games of 07' Smith had a 500. record. Then you started noticing problems with that shoulder. He hasn't been able to really show what he could do since but, Do I thinik he should be the number 1 guy. No! I think he should have to earn too just like Hill does.
Geomack, Dude I'm not comparing anyone to Hill outside of this organization because that's not who he's in competition with. I'm not pulling up K. Warner's numbers because I'm not worried with how Hill compares to him. You are arguing apples and oranges. I took Hill's numbers then I took Smith's numbers. Compared them to each other to see compare against talent they've faced. Not whether Hill should be starter or not. Not to say Hill is a probowler than not. When comparing Smith to Hill it is a fair arguement. My point also is that if Hill beat Arizona twice this year you guys would be telling me that he's a franchise guy. You would be using that in your arguement to warrant him as the starter. Would you not?

I really don't even comprehend how you could not give Shaun the job for this year. Alex Smith has never even put together a complete game since hes been here. Yeah, hes played good for one half or a quarter here and there, but not even a full game.

Dude... you got schooled. If you bring up an argument then have the ammo to back it up. Fact is... Shaun is going to be the starter on opening day. The risk to start Alex is WAY to high. If by some crazy miracle Smith wins the starting spot and starts on day one. He'll have ZERO margin for error and will have to execute with NO mistakes. I highly doubt this is going to happen... way too much pressure. If Smith goes in and plays like he has in the past... he'll be benched by game 3 and Hill will come in ONCE AGAIN and win. At this point every single one of us FAITHFULL will be demanding an explanation and will be calling for Sings and Rayes head.

Hill will start and WIN. It's history bro... listen to his inteview on KNBR.

wasn't recruited out of HS

went to JC and WON

transferred to Maryland and was told by his HC going into his Sr Yr that he would have to clearly beat out the QB comp because they were going to stink that year anyway

lead his team to a 10 - 1 record and the Orange Bowl

went to Amstredam Admirals and WON the Championship

took ONE knee in his 4th NFL year with Vikings and then nothing until the Niners signed him

played 3rd till he finally got his chance in 07

promised chance to compete in 08 and because of Lame Nolan and Martz (retardddd) was sent back to 3 before preseason (Hill admits in his interview that this was the hardest thing he had to face in his entire football career)

Sing takes over and puts Shaun in immediately

Shaun put's the team into a position to win almost every game and takes the 3 losses personally.

This has been his entire career... he WILL start and WILL win.

It's the only thing he knows

I think a good model to reflect upon with Tim Tebow is Steve Young. Both great athletes, leaders and they both have that "IT" factor; yet neither was a competent passer and, therefore, not a credible pro qb coming out of college. Like Young, Tebow will not be an immediate, and depending upon which team drafts him may never be a, impact player. Remember, in Tampa Bay, after coming from the LA Express where he was sometimes used as a running back, Young was viewed as a bust. Under Bill Walsh's tutelege, and with a couple of years to learn and watch, he developed into a competent and then great passer and quarterback. I think Tebow fits the same mold. He needs to learn how to be a professional quarterback and improve his passing skills. If he is drafted by a team that looks for him to be an immediate starter he will be a bust. If he is drafted by a team who will require him to sit and learn for two years and has a staff that knows how to develop a qb then I think the sky is the limit. On top of Tebow's athletic and leadership skills he has great feet, Walsh's acknowledged key for greatness of both Montana and Young. Tebow needs to learn how to use those feet and his other athletic tools to transform him from being probably the best athlete on the field to the best quarterback and best football player on the field.

I'm glad you are so convinced and you know how it will all turn out that's fine. My bad you guys took as a anti Hill arguement because that's not how it was really directed. I'm not going to crown a guy because of a 7-3 record. That's just silly. I think what is best for both guys is that they push each other to be the best. Even last year, If Smith doesn't go down due to injury. Smith is brought in as the back up and not Hill. I'm not even saying Hill didn't do a good job last year. I was just saying that his record looks inflated because he played against inferior competition. I wish him the best but I don't think he's as great as you warrant him to be. I wish Hill the best. I hope he can be that franchise guy. I'm saying the same thing for A. Smith as well. They are both 49ers and I want them to succeed. I just don't think Hill is as good as you guys are saying he is. I'm also saying I'm not necessarily ready to give up on A. Smith. I don't know why there is such a problem with that arguement and you guys have to try to beat up those who doesn't necessarly agree with you. Time will tell.

For what's it's worth.

I compared Hill to Orton because, after watching both last year, I see them as similar players.

I compared Hill to Warner, ONLY, ONLY in ONE way:
By the yardstick of 'wins against winning teams.'

It's almost like a trick question. Most people think (like rg131) that QB (A) has few wins against winning teams and that most other QB's will have a lot more.

Probably NOT. Unless that other QB's team won a LOT more games, or unless they won their fair share of games in a division with a number of winning teams (like the NFC East last year), they are likely to have similar numbers in that catagory (as the 7-9 Hill and 9-7 Warner, in a division with only one winning team) showed.

Moral of the story? If you want to criticize a QB, don't use the 'he hasn't beat many winning teams.' It's a stupid argument. rg131. Take that bullet out of your gun. NOW!

MY take:

A. Unless Smith clearly outplays Hill in camp or the preseason, Hill will start.

B. Singletary is smart, however, in not NAMING Hill the starter next year. That can cause unnecessary problems, as it did in Arizona last year when Whisenhunt named Leinart the starter for 2008, and then opened up the starting job to a competition between Warner & Leinart.
If two guys are going to compete, then name the starter AFTER the competition, not before.

C. Smith, for all his faults and failures (and they are legitimate) didn't ask to be drafted #1. He didn't ask to get paid all the monopoly money these guys get paid (and which causes so much resentment . . . of course he didn't turn it down, but who would). He didn't ask to get drafted and play for a mediocre team, with a mediocre HC, and with so many OC's. He didn't ask to get injured.

The past is the past and he is what he is. If he's a better QB than Hill (or anybody else) then he should start and people should only worry about or care about how he plays in 2009 & beyond, not the past. The past is OVER! Who knows. He may turn out to be a quality starting QB in the NFL. Time will tell.

D. The NFL is a bottom line business. No matter who starts (Hill or Smith) this year, if Nate Davis or somebody they might possibly draft next year is better, then they will start.

E. No matter who ends up starting, they aren't Joe Montana & Steve Young. Fans need to factor that in as far as their expectations. And the team needs to play a little better in all other areas to compensate for the fact that the 49ers currently have ''mere mortals' at the QB position (like MANY teams have) and not a 'God-like' figure like Montana, Young, Brady, or Peyton.

Geomak this may surprise you but as for "your take" I agree with you 100% A-E you are right on. I also agree you are right that my arguement wouldn't make sense comparing to another QB from another team. I'm only basing it with relevance to A. Smith. I do think it matters when you are comparing the two. They have a competition. My whole arguement was against Hill just being annointed the starter just because he has a 7-3 record. I'm not impressed by that being an accomplishment so I just dug into see what teams he actually won against. That's it. I just put A. Smith's numbers up to be fair. I just want it to be an even competition with the best man winning. That's it!

How great do we warrant him to be?

You know what, you can put all the stats aside even with Hills being better than Smiths. Hill just plays better football than Alex. His pocket presence, his command of the huddle, his accuracy, everything, the guy even runs without a helmet on! Nobody is saying he is great, but he is the niners best QB right now.

neither was a competent passer and, therefore, not a credible pro qb coming out of college.

Uh, wrong. Steve Young threw 33 td's his senior year ('83) to go along with 3900 yards and a 71.3% completion rate, which at that time was the NCAA record. He played in a pro-style offense, which was grantedly heavy on the pass. He was also an electrifying runner, which the Express and Bucs mistakenly tried to emphasize. Once Walsh got ahold of him and retrained him, bringing him back to the style with which he was so successful at BYU, he became a HOFer.

Tim Tebow is a great athlete and competitor and may or may not be successful in the NFL, but please don't compare his college "preperation" to that of Steve Young's.

Either way... if we have SUCCESS at QB play then we'll all be happy.

Story #1 - QB undrafted, not respected, has to prove himself again and again. Has great season and brings respect back to a much loved franchise. The true Cinderella Story THUMBS UP

Story #2 - #1 Draft pick... future of the franchise, then get's thrown to the wolves, horrible HC, injury plagued, reduced contact, ect. then makes the biggest comeback the NFL has ever seen. THUMBS UP

Here's the funny thing guys... I read on a Raiders blog this morning... "Even at his worst, JaMarcus will be 100% better then Alex Smith."

I think we may have the best 1 - 2 punch in the sport :)

I appreciate your statutory references but I remain of the same opinion about Young's competence as a passer coming out of college. Young's college stats were earned at BYU against WAC competition. There are a litany of BYU quarterbacks with similar credentials who have been nothing but second tier pro quarterbacks and don't reply with Jim McMahon. McMahon is another who without one of the greatest runners and defenses of all time wouldn't have been the qb on a superbowl team. In this regard, McMahon was marginally better than Dilfer who supplied the same thing to the Ravens superbowl championship team. Finally, I believe Steve Young himself admitted that he learned how to become professional passer and qb after joining the 49ers.

Well said Benny.

Exactly, faithful niner. Succinct. Let's move on to something else.

Drew, I'm not going to argue with you about competition; I guess the unanswerable question is whether it is better preparation for the pros to be highly successful in a pro-style offense against generally mediocre competition, or highly successful in a college offense, like the spread, against strong competition. I'm not going to look it up, but I recall Young having a couple of really great games outside the WAC (Holiday Bowl vs. Big Ten team?). In the end it probably is all about the individual guy. I do know that Young was considered an extraodinarily accurate passer out of college and was set to be the #1 pick in the NFL draft before he shocked all by signing the hugh, at that time, contract with LA. By the way, he gave as a major reason for signing with LA was that it was closer to his home in Utah than where he anticipated being drafted in the NFL.

You couldn't be more wrong about McMahon. I watched all his games in Chicago. I'm guessing you didn't.

Before McMahon's arrival in Chicago, the Bears had the great Walter Payton and Buddy Ryan. And NO QB. They were a terrible team, averaging 14.5 points a game.

In 1985, for example, the Bears led the NFC in scoring and averages 26 points a game. That's two TD swing. Big, Big difference.

McMahon:

A). Was a GREAT leader. That's why his teammates at BYU and in Chicago loved him

When Jim McMahon was a sophmore at BYU, he replaced starter Marc Wilson, who had gotten hurt.

As teammate Clay Brown recalled: "Jim came in with so much confidence, it was like he'd been there for 10 years."

Teammate Bill Ring: "I have a lot of respect for Marc Wilson and he was a terrific QB, but competitiveness was what really separated Jim from Marc."

B). Was one of the best ever at reading defenses. He watched very little game film (which used to upset Ditka). He didn't need to. He had a Larry Bird/Wayne Gretzky like ability to see the field better and faster than most other guys.

C). While he didn't have the strongest arm, he was a GREAT passer. He's the greatest passer In NCAA college football history, with 56 records. He didn't forget how to pass in the NFL.

His biggest problem was in playing for a conservative coach in Mike Ditka, which was why McMahon, after the playcall, would often tell his teammates "F++K that, we're going to run this."

Much like the old joke about Dean Smith being the only one who could hold back Michael Jordan, the conservative playcalling of Mike Ditka was all that could hold back Jim McMahon.

Ditka in on record as saying that "Without Jim McMahon, we don't win the Super Bowl." I'm pretty sure that Brian Billick never said the same about Trent Dilfer.

Honestly, anyone who compares Trent Dilfer to Jim McMahon really doesn't understand the situation. Really. That's a nice way of putting it.

BTW: Steve Young is ON RECORD as saying "I (Steve Young) learned how to play QB by watching Jim McMahon."

I will be happy to send you a copy of that if need be.

I would like to ask the question of how the NFL will look in 5 years? With the rule changes over the last few years it appears that the table has been set for a very different kind of football.
Is the game going to change where players and coaches take advantage of the rule changes? How do you think the game is going to change? Spreading the field with more "flank" attacking and "moving lines of scrimmage" with variables built into plays,is how I see it.

Allow me to nitpick. Steve Young had a 71% completion percentage, 33 touchdown passes, and over 3900 yards his senior year. I'd say he was a credible passer coming out of college. I will certainly agree with you on one thing though, I see Tim Tebow as the type of professional that would work his tail off to get better in every meaningful way. Whether or not he ever really becomes a good passer is something that none of us will ever really be able to predict. The same truth applies that you cannot truly predict the success of a guy even if he were a strong passer in college. BennyBlanco makes the case for Shaun Hill in a way that is hard to not get behind. I am pulling for the guy, and I definitely hope he does well. We all do. Regardless, we all know what Vernon Davis CAN do with the ball in his hands. We all know what Frank Gore CAN do when the opposing defense doesn't have 8 or 9 guys in the box. We all have visions dancing in our heads of what the most prolific and accomplished college wide receiver CAN do if we have a squared away quarterback situation. On one hand, I really do not think Alex Smith has played his best football. On the other hand, I see no practical way that Shaun Hill does not open the season as the starter. Well I do see a way, but I dare not mention it due to the jinx factor. He'll have a pretty long leash too. Certainly a longer one than Smith would have if he won the starting job in training camp. I hope Shaun Hill lives up to our expectations. The 2009 season depends on it.

I was poised to pounce on that McMahon slight, but once again GeoMak, you've beaten me to the punch on getting the facts straight on our NFL alumni.

McMahon was a hot dog with extra relish, a bit of a space cadet in the Fred Dryer mold, and threw spirals reminiscent of our beloved Shaun Hill. But he was a tenacious leader of men, and without him, there would have been no "Super Bowl Shuffle".

Yet another historical reason why Alex Smith has a huge mountain to climb in order to win back the confidence of his teammates.

Alex falls into the athlete vs. QB debate.
A simple, but obvious fact about MOST successful QBs, is the ability to see the field, digest the information, and remain calm in the heat of battle.
It's often been said that the game 'slows' down for the good ones.
If Alex is as cerebral as advertised, he'll catch on.
For now, he's been a deer in the headlights. The game is too fast for him and he hasn't mastered the read / react trigger yet.
Until he does, his legacy is doomed to the bust tag simply because he was selected 1 overall.
I feel he has the potential to overcome his shortcomings, but he's too young and too wishy washy to be taken seriously in the huddle perhaps?
If, and when, he grows a pair and gets into the fast lane, he has a chance to redeem himself.
If not, move over, Nate, et al, will be happy to take his spot on the depth chart.

Thanks Franchise.

You are a knowledgeable NFL fan!

McMahon authored one of the greatest comebacks in college football against SMU, who was coached by Ron Meyer, who later coached both the Patriots and the Colts.

Talking about McMahon's reckless style of play and the way he threw his body around (ala Hill running without his helmet last year in Arizona) Meyer said this:

"Is that smart?
Probably Not.
But does that win?
You bet . . . and that's Jim McMahon."

Leadership is vital at the QB (and HC'ing) position in the NFL.

Thanks Franchise. You are a knowledgeable NFL fan.

McMahon authored one of the greatest college comebacks in the 1980 Holiday Bowl against SMU and their HC Ron Meyer, who later coached both the Patriots and the Colts.

Talking about McMahon's leadership and his reckless style of play (ala Hill running without his helmet last year) Meyer said:

Is that smart?
Probably not.
But does that win?
You bet . . . and that was Jim McMahon.

Great leadership is critical at the QB (and HC'ing) position in the NFL.

Alex Smith is a brainiac. Urban Meyer, who knows Alex Smith as well or better than anybody, said:

…….

“It’s going to be interesting in San Francisco,” Meyer said. “Alex is an extremely quick learner. However, he’s a guy that, until he understands it, he is nonfunctional. He is a guy that — I keep hearing how Brett Favre kind of makes something out of nothing and is a person that runs around to make a play — Alex Smith is not that kind of player. Alex Smith is a person that, once he is taught, has to learn it all. He might struggle early, but once he gets it, he gets it.”

“I’m going to be anxious to watch his development with the 49ers. Alex is so careful with the ball. His touchdown-to-interception ratio the last 2 years was phenomenal (47 touchdowns and seven interceptions). That’s because, unless he knows exactly what’s going on, he won’t throw it. He won’t just try to guess and take a shot. He has to know.

“That’s why, early in his career, and early in our career with him at Utah, he was not an effective passer, because he really didn’t understand. Once he understood, there was no one better. He learns quickly, though. But he’s not a guy that you throw the ball out there and tell him, ‘Go play.’ He wants to know what is exactly expected of him and then he becomes a dynamite player.’

…….

That is where a lot of the weight to the OC defense in his favor comes from. The "read/react trigger" is a term I have never heard before but it is what Smif lacks. Until he learns to play without slowing himself down by thinking so much, he will never succeed. In fact he will be terrible. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day, the question of whether or not the team won, then whether or not the quarterback played well are simple yes-or-no questions.

7 other major questions to decide in TC (and my guesses):

1. Nate Davis or Damon Huard? Davis – too risky to put on the PS, 4 QBs is too many
2. Will we carry 5 RBs? No – Sheets to the PS
3. Will Arnaz Battle make the roster with the increased competition at WR? Yes – bye, Dominique Zeigler
4. Barry Sims, Alex Boone, or Jacob Bender? Bender – Boone on PS
5. Jay Moore or Ahmad Brooks? Flip a coin
6. Ray McDonald or Ricky Jean-Francois? McDonald (if healthy) - RJF to the PS
7. Most likely position for a veteran FA upgrade? DB – CB or S, depending on Reggie Smith

1. Davis. Huard will likely remain a free agent, so if somebody get hurt badly, you can always grab him (or another FA).

2. I agree. It'll either be sheets or coffee to the PS. We'll have to see who impresses the most in TC.

3. This will be interesting. It seems Ziggy has more upside, but Battle is a very good possession receiver. Can Crabtree or Morgan fill that role?

4. Can Boone show that he can turn it around? Seems he has a better skillset than Sims.

5. Concur.

6. Same as Boone. RJF has IMMENSE talent. Can they harness it and turn him into an NFL player?

7. Depends on who gets cut... there's not much out there right now.

Thanks for your response!

Teams don't generally risk high picks on the PS. We won't PS Coffee.

I don't think Boone has any chance to make anybody's final roster until he's sentenced for his most recent alcohol-related arrest. Even after that, he's got a huge uphill battle convincing people that he's not a drug suspension waiting to happen. We grabbed Bender off the Patriots PS late last year. I think he's a safer bet than Boone, and a lot younger than Sims.

McDonald was a 3rd round pick. Only 12 players were drafted after RJF. I think he's safe on the PS for awhile.

(7) was definitely a bonus question, depending as it does on the other 31 teams. I just feel that we're shallowest at DB. The only 2 proven safeties we have are MLewis and MRoman. Goldson looks good, but Taylor's a rookie, and Williams and RSmith are converting from CB. And if the last 2 remain at S, we're short at CB.

1. Not out of the realm of possibility is Davis coming down with a case of the "sprained whatever" and being put on IR for the year.

2. Sheets, probably PS, but if Rossum shows his age in pre-season and Sheets shines as a returner, could snag Rossum's spot. If he has good PS, won't make it through waivers, though.

3. Ziegler looks like a goner, unless someone is injured.

4.Boone/Bender: one wins roster spot in camp. Sims, adios.

5. Brooks may have small advantage; pretty close to tossup.

6.If Jean-Francois shows motivation and work ethis, he's the man. Doubt if he makes it through waivers either- potential is too great.

7. Totally agree with your assessment, except that Roman is proven. Well, actually I guess that's true in a way - he's proven that he can no longer play effectively. If Goldson can't stay healthy, safety becomes a huge problem.

Interesting proposals Petaluman.

"Teams don't generally risk high picks on the PS. We won't PS Coffee."

I agree, but if Sheets outshines Coffee, they'll have to do something. Especially with all the speculation coming out that the Purdue coaching staff intentionally sabotaged Sheets' draft stock in the offseason for personal reasons.

When does Matt get back?

Thanks for your response!

Sheets just got passed on 256 times. Chances are, he won't see action with the 1st string in the pre-season, like Clayton. That's why I think he'd be safe on PS. Clayton was actually a 6th round pick, and no one grabbed him in 2 years there

I'll be really interested to see how the Brooks/Moore donnybrook ends up. We just haven't seen much of Moore. Brooks having worked both inside and out could give him an edge.

RJF was drafted 244th of 256; only 1 big DL went after him (out of 4 in the 7th round). I have high hopes for him, too, but I think he'll be a victim of numbers (244 and 53) this year - assuming McDonald is good to go.

I'm guessing that the Williams/Smith conversion projects reflects 49er belief that it will be easier to get a veteran that's a "known" (not so controversial word as "proven", I hope) quantity at CB. I agree that at least one of the conversions has to work, though, or safety will be shallowest position on our roster.

shootme,

I don't buy that Sheets wasn't drafted solely because he hurt his coach's feelings. I'm no expert, and didn't see him play, so I could be way off base. Still, I'm guessing that there are on the field concerns with him. He seems to do "OK" with the ball, so maybe it's blocking/blitz pickup?

Odds are that during the preseason, Coffee will see action with the 1s and 2s. Sheets will be the primary back - with the 3s. We drafted Clayton in the 6th round, and did the same thing with him. He lead the team in rushing 2 years in a row, and no one ever put him on roster.

I agree with you almost 100% Oldgiantfan. Except I don't think Simms is gone. I think they move him to OG. I don't think he didn't mean proven by Roman I just meant with experience at the position.

I for one am really hoping Ziegler makes the team. He'e showed some flashes in the last couple years and showed he could make some plays. I think his ceiling as a WR is higher than Battle's, and we already have enough possession guys. Ziegler has shown flashes to be able to do more, and I think that is important since Bruce is on his last year and we don't know what we have in this jones kid yet, although most agree he was drastically over paid for what he did in Tenn. I really like Ziegler, I hope he stays over Battle if that's what it comes down to.

Matt, please get back to work. And you wonder why the economy is in slump!!

Simms did play at both Tackle and Guard for the Raiders. However, he's in his 11th year, and turns 35 this year. Jacob Bender is only 24. Adam Snyder is our current swing T/G, and he's only 27. Even Tony Wragge is a good 5 years younger than Barry. Simms could stick, but to do so he really has to beat one of these guys out. If it's close, we'll probably go with the younger player.

Ziegler's advantages are big play ability and youth. Battle is a much, much better blocker and that's half a WR's job. However, he needs to stay healthy to keep his spot. If he can do that, I think he's still got the inside track.

petaluman: "I don't buy that Sheets wasn't drafted solely because he hurt his coach's feelings. I'm no expert, and didn't see him play, so I could be way off base. Still, I'm guessing that there are on the field concerns with him."

Sheets reportedly had difficulty with the Purdue coaching staff, beginning with a brief benching in 2007 for a fumble problem.

Test

The 1st test is 8/14, when we open the preseason against Denver.

Seemed to work he had 0 fumbles his entire career according to ESPN.

1. Davis is the 911 QB. Huard is a camp arm and gets cut. There is nothing that Huard gives us that Davis doesn't. If it gets so bad that Davis is starting, we can sign any old Jesse Palmer (I'm kidding).

2. RB's are Gore, Coffe, Norris, MRob (not really a running back) and Sheets. Sheets gives us a receiving threat out of the backfield. Clayton has gotten off the PS in 2 years.

3. Battle always makes it despite our efforts to cut him every year. However, the WR position is stacked this year and competition is fierce. Is this one of those situations where you take a guy at the end of his career or a guy who is at the beginning or middle.

4. Agree. Bender makes it, Simms is cut Boone on PS. Bender's competition will be Toledo for the final roster spot. Toledo and Boone will fight it out for a spot on the PS, if Boone isn't rotting in jail.

5. Who knows. Jay Moore will come down with a season ending yeast infection. Brooks will be distracted by a shiny object and Diryal Briggs slides into the last LB/ST slot.

6. I have a feeling that McDonald's knee isn't doing well. this is the second time he's had it reconstructed in 2 or 3 years. Does not bode well for a guy who is "explosive" We know that RJF will get plenty of motivation from sing. Depends on McDonald's health but RJF will be on the PS at the MINIMUM. Just hope RJF doesn't turn to WTF

7. We have too many guys at Safety now with Roman, Lewis, Goldson, Baker, Taylor, Williams and Smith. Although interesting, Williams and Smith are listed as CB's and Taylor as a FS on the roster. I would like to see us develop young DB talent instead of getting a high priced, old, short term FA retread. You can only go to the Harris well so often. I would like sing to bring in some DB coaches: Lott, Wright, Duerson someone to get this CB issue working. Smith is the just the latest we've had to convert to safety because they cant play CB.

Sorry for the long post

Looking at the Sheets situation, in a way he's really not in competition with the other backs. There is little chance that he "beats out" any of the other four-obviously not Gore, Coffee was drafted too high, he's not a FB, and Robinson is such a ST warrior that I doubt Sheets can give the team the same. He's really going to be in competition with backups at other positions and Rossum for one of the last roster spots. It's just a matter of do the coaches want to keep 5 RB's or an extra DB or can he beat out Rossum as the primary kick returner?

Who cares about the qbs? They're all backups and nothing to get excited over.

This team will never get over the .500 mark until five things happen: McCloughan stops creating "stop-gap" situations with older free agents, the 49ers actually address the qb situation like the Bears and Chiefs did this offseason, Singletary's coaching staff is forced to develop young talent while that talent is starting, the scouting department is fired, and McCloughan realizes you build the trenches first, not the skill positions. Micheal Oher was your first round guy. Scot McCloughan needs to be fired.

The only firing necessary in Ninerland has already occurred. According to reliable sources, the toilet troll on the SF Gate site was finally shown the door and is now running around from site to site trying to make a new stink for himself. To the universal amusement of the entire Bay Area community. Nothing like a Redding roto-rooter scooter to bring out the howls of laughter here.

Thanks Petaluman for starting a new thread...wheeew enough QB talk already.
1) Davis, we need to start looking to develop a QB for down the road, a better investment than hanging on to a 13 yr never done much, not dressing for the game anyway roster plugger.
2) We'll have to see in TC but Sheets could be the scat back for a change of pace with his versatility & speed. I'd like to see M Rob be the odd man out. Maybe he's good on special teams but he never makes plays as a RB. Sheets has the talent to make some big plays.
3) Again, TC will show us more but it's nice to have all the young talent as a problem. Any chance we trade some one for a future pick? Maybe to a team that could use a Battle tested vet possesion receiver?
4) get rid of Sims...please. Way too old & tired, besides he's an ex Raider. I like the upside of Boone if he can overcome his issues.
5) Rumor has it Brooks is in great shape
6) We have a few players like RJF, Boone, Sheets that have issues resulting in them being either a steal or just a 7th round or UDFA that didn't make it. All may come up with some phantom injury and be IRedshirted to avoid being picked up on waivers. Kudos to McC for being quick on the trigger with these sleepers.
7) It looks like we have some unproven but athletic talent on the squad already, hoping one or two step up and get us by until next year and we go for Mays from SC.

Thanks for your response!

I checked after reading Dirk's post/link (thanks, Dirk!) and saw the same thing. I must admit, I'm suspicious that it means they didn't keep track, rather than that he never fumbled in 4 years. I found another link:

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2009-Big-Board/-150.-Kory-Sheets.html

Ball security is mentioned here as an issue, and pass blocking a couple of times. I tend to agree with oldgiantfan that Sheets probably won't make the final roster unless we keep 5 RBs (or someone ahead of him goes down).

I just googled "kory sheets fumbles" and came up with plenty of links. It appears he was benched in 2007 after losing his 4th fumble that season. So much for espn data!

On (7), I'm not suggesting we would be looking for a top dollar FA DB. I'm OK with the proposed starters; but we don't have much depth. If Williams and Smith are indeed not cutting it as CBs, we could end up either keeping one of the UDFA rookies or picking up a career backup who lost out in the numbers battle on another team.

Wait a second, are you implying Smith will be terrible because he wants to play mistake-free football? He actually wants to learn an offense fully before going out there to sling it, and this sort of complete knowledge will make him bad?

I respectfully disagree that Smith doesn't have "read/react" skills. The NFL IS a thinking man's game and if you react without knowing your read, that's when you will be a terrible QB. Smith appears to want to focus on knowing his read so well that he doesn't make mistakes. 47 TDs to 7 INTs is a great ratio that indicates "careful" play. Now you can read "careful" in Meyer's statement to mean hesitant, but it doesn't mean that. It means Smith wants the ball to be in the right spot EVERY time. After last years JTO debacle, we should be so lucky.