The 49ers have seven good receivers. Included on that list is one veteran (Isaac Bruce) who not long ago was genuinely great, and a couple younger receivers (Michael Crabtree and Josh Morgan) with chances to be very, very good in the near future.
When I solicited some questions last night, it was the receiver group that people most wanted to hear about.
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Questions: Which 49ers WR looks to be on the outside looking in? (Ryan)
What is your prediction of the 49ers Depth Chart at WR? (Don)
Do you see Arnaz Battle making the team? (Patrick)
I'd love to hear your prediction on how the WR situation will play out. (Marc)
Who has the better year -- Josh Morgan or Isaac Bruce? (Trevor)
Answers: Several days ago, somebody emailed me asking which 49ers player is most apt to have a "breakout" season. My answer was Josh Morgan. It makes a lot of sense that the team is giving him action at flanker or the "Z" position during the offseason program. He played split end or "X" as a rookie. Now, he can play anywhere he's most needed.
The 49ers have really good depth at receiver, and it has been needed for these offseason workouts.
Reclusive veteran Isaac Bruce shows up only when he's contractually obligated. (At least the club does not have to pay him his $25,000 workout bonus.) Michael Crabtree is on a schedule in which he will not practice with his teammates until the first day of training camp. Arnaz Battle continues to rehab a foot injury that forced him out of the final half of last season. And Jason Hill has missed a couple weeks with a hamstring pull.
I've always been of the opinion that
This is difficult, but here is my - all things considered - list of where the 49ers receivers stand right now: Morgan, Bruce, Crabtree, Jones, Hill,
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Later, I'll answer some of the other questions.
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Everyone is optimistic before we start playing for real, but I believe we have real talent on the offensive at receiver for the first time in years. Now is the time for the O-Line to step up. If they play well, we can be a much better team.
If Hill or Smith step it up we can be good.
BTW I heard Nate Davis on KNBR, that young man is well grounded and I look forward to his future.
Hey Matt, a few weeks ago I posted my concern at wide receiver for the 9ers. This was before the signing of Brandon Jones, the return of Bruce and the selection of Crabtree in the draft.
My concern was that Morgan was our best receiver then and even he looks great at this time, his inexperience made me nervous.
Now Bruce will be back, Crabtree looks like a real good promise as a playmaker, and Brandon Jones has shown good things at OTAs.
I am really excited to see how these players are going to be used, specially since our running game will be improved also and will allow some play actions.
I totally agree with you on the list order, and OMG to have Zeigler as # 7th in the depth chart tells you something about the WRs group for this year.
I am expecting a breakout season for Morgan and J Hill now that they are surrounded with the other vets. As far as Crabtree, hope they take it slow on him and prepare some specific plays for him to take advantage of his playmaking ability.
Also, I forgot to mention the improvement we should have this year with the TE position, adding to the great depth at WR.
I am also expecting V Davis to have a breakout season and Bear Pascoe to contribute somehow.
I know I am expecting several players to have breakout seasons, but this is what coach Singletary will bring to the organization, I am sure.
Yes the Niners may have the most talent at WR in their history but if their QBs cant get them the ball what good are they. If this group is so talented then maybe Bruce should be the one to go. Why lose good young talent for a veteran that more then likely wont be here next year. We have three young proven receivers Morgan, Hill, Battle. We also have Ziegler who could push those three and Crabtree with a potential for a great upside. That leaves us with Jones and Bruce. Let Bruce go and keep Jones. The best part of all this talent is next years draft barring injuries we wont have to draft a WR and with two number one picks - I am chomping at the bit
Matt,
Thanks for getting us all up on our 9ers fix. Can you do a quick comparison between Coffee and Sheets? Was Sheets any good or was it more than his coaches messing up his chances for getting drafted? I asked Beerows the same question but he hasn't responded. Maybe he doesn't know enough about the question to comment?
To have Bruce at the team will improve all the young group we have at the position. Keeping him will produce not only in numbers, but in intangibles to the rest of the players.
As far as the QBs, you are right, we need to have a solid starter not making mistakes and getting the ball where it needs to get, that is why is also very important the running game and the TEs usage and obviously a solid OL.
As far as the reports are, both QBs have been showing a lot of good things, lets hope this translates to good game playing (this is why I think S Hill should be the starter, but I am so glad A Smith is getting back to what he is supposed to, but I got to see it in the games)...
I love the WR corps the niners have now as well but who is going to throw them the ball? Either option is the worst starting qb in the league expect maybe the Vikings situation... With the qbs we have our wr's will be like a Ferrari you can't take out of first gear... I just think as long as we are talking about Alex Smith and Shaun Hill competing for a starting job we will not be talking about the niners in post season football... I wish it wasn't that way but I know it is, until there is a legit NFL starting qb on this roster, no playoffs for the niners.
Question: Can you do a quick comparison between Coffee and Sheets? Was Sheets any good or was it more than his coaches messing up his chances for getting drafted?
My response: I'll address this when I answer some questions about the RBs. --Matt M.
Talent? Talent? So we've got a bunch of kids that can run & catch in college & practice. Means nothing until they can prove it in games. Putting Crabtree at #3 when he hasn't caught a ball even in practice means even less. Get real.
Reality is that the best receiver right now is Bruce and he got dumped by Rams, one of the very worst teams in the NFL. Battle wouldn't start for any top team and Morgan has shown a couple of flashes and that he can get injured.
I think deepest in hype would be the best title for this article.
Reggie: Shaun Hill and Alex Smith are the worst options at QB in the NFL? Nice exaggeration (or pessimistic view) you do realize that Shaun Hill had the 12th best QB passer rating in the NFL at 87.5? If he had the same amount of games as the other QB's, his stats would have been equal to or better than Donovan McNabb, Eli Manning and Jay Cutler.
Matt,
Only 3, maybe 4 receivers are going to give serious contributions to a team in the regular season so as far as "productive depth" the 1998 squad with Rice, Owens, and Stokes as your TOP 3 and throw in Mark Harris at 4 destroys this group. And the Best Group the 49ers ever had was in 1994 with Rice, Taylor, Nate Singleton, and Ed McCaffrey. This years group still doesn't have a #1 receiver in the way of production although I will agree that the future looks good with Morgan, Crabtree, Hill, and probably Jones/Ziegler. We shall see!
Good stuff Matt.
They plan to put Crabtree at X & Morgan at Z. I really like what I'm hearing about Brandon Jones because he's the fastest WR we have (our legit deep threat) & he'll back off the D from stacking 8-9 in the box especially if he can continue to catch the ball the way he's been catching everything thrown his way in these practices. I believe he backs up one of the outside spots....can either Crabtree or Morgan play in the slot if need be when we line up with 3 WR's?
I think a 3 WR set of Crabtree, Morgan, & Jones would put some FEAR into the D. (Definitely more with a stronger armed QB. Maybe Smith whenever he gets his chance.) It's probably too early now to move Crabtree around & at the Y but once he gets established in a year or 2 I think he could be potent there a la how AZ uses Boldin. If Crabtree pans out like we're hoping he will, he has the high football IQ to quickly read the Defense, physicality, & ability to quickly cause separation that's needed for that spot. I can't remember...who was our #1 slot receiver last year? (Did we shift Bruce when we went to 3 wides, was it Hill?)
Realfan49 -
Why so negative? Hill and Morgan showed more than "flashes" last year. They both came through with a number of big plays when we needed and showed about as much consistancy as you could expect from a rookie and first time starter. As the season wore on they seemed to get better. Ziegler on the other has only shown flashes, but thats because he hasn't had much of a chances, but I like what I see.
Ask yourself this question, do you remember one time last year watching the game thinking, "wow that receiver sucks!" (Besides VD...lol). I know I didn't and do to be honest thats probably the first time in 6 seasons. I do however remember thinking a number of times last year, "wow, I think we got something here."
As far as Battle and Jones, you can probably lump them together statistically, but we all know when Battle is healthy he is a good posession type receiver. The bottom line is they are dependable.
As for Crabtree, your right, he hasn't done anything in the pro's. But this isn't just any college reciever. The kid had 40 (plus ?) TDs in 2 college seasons and didn't even start playing WR until college. ARE YOU KIDDING ME! With a solid QB, at worst he will a number 2 option.
I respect Bruce, but I don't care who you are Coach Sing has already said, "no one is above the team." That includes Bruce. As both Matt's have pointed out it seems like its more about him than the Niners. If the Niners can cut Jerry and Montana I wouldn't shed a tear to see Bruce ( A Ram thru and thru) go bye bye.
How about 1986:
Jerry Rice
Dwight Clark
John Taylor
Mike Wilson
Freddie Solomon in training camp
Ken Margerum - 3rd round Bears pick
Derrick Crawford - 1st round suplemental draft pick
Question: How about 1986: Jerry Rice Dwight Clark John Taylor Mike Wilson Freddie Solomon in training camp Ken Margerum - 3rd round Bears pick Derrick Crawford - 1st round suplemental draft pick
My response: Rice and Clark combined for 147 receptions. The other five receivers you mentioned combined for 16 receptions in '86. --Matt M.
I really like the make-up of our WR corps now. Each guy brings a little something different...Bruce just gets open and still has the good hands. Morgan has big-play abilities. Hill's kind of a tweener...good hands, runs good intermediate routes. Jones will shock any doubters left...fastest receiver we have and will love Raye's play-action passing game. Crabtree's just a great athlete...terrific hands and another guy like Morgan who can make big plays. Battle's just dependable, but could be on the bubble now. Ziegler's got very nice hands, but is a stick who'll likely get broken in two at some point.
I'm not worried at all about any of our QB's getting these guys the ball. I still favor Hill because he's shown the ability to win, and with a lesser team than he'll have this year. Love the fact Alex has shown so much progress...we need him back 100%. And, lest we forget, the old man in the group, Huard, has proven he can get the job done when called upon. They'll have to get creative w/Nate Davis...don't want to put him on the PS!
It's true the OL will have to step up to make the offense go. I have confidence they'll do that...with Marvel Smith at RT, we have a very solid OL now. Just watch Baas and Rachal blow people up in the power running game. Having that back in our arsenal will also have a positive affect on pass protection...our OL won't have to keep the opposition at bay for as long as in Martz' offense.
There is something about Zeigler that I want him to succeed, even almost at the expense of a higher profile player.
He seems to always be there for a most needed reception.
Traj
I have to agree with some of the posters. Just like the QB situation until Pre-Season we won't know what we have as far as the WR Corp. but it's exciting from a "potential" point of view as far as talent. I do like Zeigler alot, he showed alot of promise in last year's Pre-Season games & was fortunate enough to play in some regular season games which will only help him this year. As for Bruce, you gotta keep him simply from a maturation process for the younger guys. All they have to do is watch & learn from one of the greats, and if Bruce produces as much as he did last season then that's just gravy of top.
The backup WRs are going to double on special teams &, honest to God, I don't see anyone losing ground there either. Battle is probably the most vulnerable here again insomuch he must re-embrace his pre-2006 ST niches, although I also think B-Jones won't dress for games much if he's the 4th or 5th WR. May have to choose between the two.
I'll bite on the deepest-WR unit & submit the 1999 batch:
1. Owens
2. Rice
3. Stokes
4. Mark Harris
5. Damon Griffin (a preseason star)
6. Nai'l Benjamin (ditto)
7. Roell Preston (replacement RS in Dec; ex-Pro Bowler)
8. Tai Streets (rookie, PUP'd till late Dec)
Other camp WRs:
10. Karl Lerum (Pacific Lutheran, 49er 2008 TC & PS)
11. Jesus Reyes (SD State, UDFA)
12. Morris Anderson (Baylor, UDFA)
13. Mark Bastianelli (USC, UDFA)
14. Jim McElroy (UCLA, UDFA)
Offseason WRs:
15. Angelo Harrison (Virginia Tech, UDFA)
16. Sean LaChappelle (2-yr vet, NFLEer, 1993 R5 pick)
Hi Matt,
I have a couple of WR-related questions:
1) Who's been working in the slot?
2) Does Spurlock still have PS eligibility?
Matt youve got to be kidding me? Deepest? And why do we have to name 7? Especially when the team wont keep 7. That makes no sense. But it only makes sense in order to support your statement. Are u acutally comparing this reciever group to any Niner group? Doesnt production stand for anything.I noticed you reply to Joe and stated their stats. Let me state soem stats and facts for you..Brandon Jones has averaged 28 rec and less than 350 yards per years and 2 TD's in his career.... D.Zeigler in his only year 5 rec 97yds and 0 td's....Arnaz Battle has been injured the last couple of years and was mediorce when he was healthy, But he had 24 rec 318yd's 0 TD's last year. Jason Hill finally given a opportunity to play did well when he was on the field His numbers 30 rec 317yds 2 TD....Which brings us to Issac Bruce,Josh Morgan and Micheal Crabtree. Lets start with Crabtree...Matt he hasnt even practiced yet, he has all the potential in the world but the man HASNT EVEN PRACTICED YET. We hope that he is as advertised but the man hasnt even practiced yet,He could be HOF material or he could be a bust. The fact is we wont know until he shows it on the field in the regular season. Josh Morgan? I think is primed for a big season if they can get him the ball, Its something about the guy that says star IF we have an offense that can utilize his skills. His stats from last year 20 rec 319 3 TD's And last but not least Issac Bruce a 16 year vet on the verge of retirement who has been the most productive receiver weve had in recent memory. Your statement is ridiculous. Who gives a damn about depth when there hasnt been production. Wait til these guys actually do something to justify such a statment bacause although it could come true because right now there is no basis at all and you sound pretty ridiculous.
A couple of things about Bruce.
As a mentor, he doesn't take an active role, he is a watch what I do as a professional kind of guy. If he really embraced his role as a mentor, he would show up to "voluntary" OTA's, but not practice. Bruce still thinks of himself as a #1 and acts accordingly. Don't confuse age with mentoring. He is the most experienced and accomplished by far, but he is not a teacher.
Second, I do think he's got a couple of seasons of tread left, but it shouldn't get in the way of the development of Morgan, Crabtree or Hill. Jones should be on the roster, given the cap space we devoted to him, and play a significant part. Bruce's roster spot should not be guarenteed. The hallmark of the great 9er teams was the ability of Walsh to evaluate talent. It was better to let a guy go 1 year to early that too late.
There is reason for optimism, but let's look at the 2008 stat lines, listed in order of receptions.
Player Catches/Yards/TDs
Crabtree 97/1165/19
Bruce 61/835/7
Jones 41/449/1
Hill 30/317/2
Battle 24/318/0
Morgan 20/319/3
Zeigler 5/97/0
We only have two receivers on the roster with more than 50 receptions in 2008. One is a future NFL Hall of Famer and the other is the #1 wideout in the 2009 draft. Bruce may appear selfish on the outside, but he is the unquestioned leader of our WR group. I'm not talking about talent, dollars, or depth chart; I'm talking LEADER.
All the Shaun Hill/Alex Smith discussions go on and on about leadership, but look no further than Isaac Bruce. He may not say much, but his words and actions mean more to the young WRs than Jerry Sullivan's (our WR coach).
Crabtree was a man among boys the last two years and has an undeniably bright future ahead of him, but Bruce has been a leader among men. In 1998, Bruce only played 5 games. His stat line: 32/457/1. Yep, Bruce had more receptions in 5 games than any other receiver on our roster had last year. Bruce is the our most valuable wide receiver, whether he leads the team in receiving or not. We're lucky to have him and we need to give credit where credit is due.
Huge difference between talent / potential and results / success.
Outside of Bruce not one of the guys on our roster have proven anything of sustained value in the NFL as of yet. I do believe we have some talented guys (Morgan, Crabtree) but before we can start calling this group the best depth ever they need to perform on the field and on a consistent basis first. In fact we probably have one of the weakest groups in terms of proven production in the league. Don't get me wrong I think we have some guys who COULD put up some nice numbers but COULD and HAVE are 2 separate things.
Right on PHX. Well said. I temporarily got caught up in the hype when I made my post. Those main 3 WR's I brought up still HAVE A LOT TO PROVE ON SUNDAYS!
I would also like to add that while I am very stoked about the potential of or WR group, I kind of wish the title of this thread was about our O-Line / front 7 on defense. Not overly thrilled about the depth at our LB, NT or OL spots. And of course we won't even address our QB situation, talk about having to choose between the less stinky end of a piece of poop! lol :) Nah, I actually am kind of coming around on Hill and of course wish Smith would just suddenly come around but all in all I would rather have these guys be our #2 QB.
The first 3 sentances in Matt's blog post would indicate to me that he wasn't necessarily saying this is the most talented WR group; but rather just saying the Niners have a lot more (while mostly unproven) worthy options than they've had in a long time, possibly ever. Iownknow, I could be wrong though.
It should be noted that Mike Bastianelli, mentioned above (and incorrectly referred to as 'Mark') in blitzonic's post regarding the 1999 WR class, was killed in the early morning on December 15, 2005 along with fellow former-Trojan Darrell Russell in an unfortunate car accident on Wilshire Blvd in Los Angeles.
Matt i do apologize for i just re-read the first sentence in the first paragraph. Where you said"It's not the best group of receivers the 49ers have ever assembled." But i do think your very premature in an assesssment. I think saying this group is potentially the deepest wouldve been more valid.
The 49ers may be deep in the receiver position because of the injuries suffered by so many who are on the roster.
What caught my eye in Matt's article is the word "injured" or "injury. This includes the injury to our #1 draft choice in Crabtree. He hasn't run a route yet and it's understandable from a doctor's perspective that he shouldn't yet. It seems that many don't realize the severity of this kind of injury. It has ended many careers. I hope to see Crabtree running routes in games for many years, but it isn't a given and this injury can be a plague.
But this was a great article from Matt and he covers the story like a blanket! Man he's great!
SteveG -
I appreciate the break down and I dont disagree with the first half. In fact, I dont really strongly disagree with any of it. However, I wouldn't exactly say we are "lucky" to have Bruce. What does Bruce's stats from a DECADE ago have anything to do with his talent today. A DECADE in football years is like human years to dogs. My only point is I think we would be fine with or without him. Question: if the new guys and Davis really begin to develop how do you think Bruce will handle being the second and third option? My guess, not very well. He didn't get to where he is by not being a great competitor.
My point in using his 1998 stats is that even in his worst year, he has shown more than any of our other receivers did last year. His experience is so valuable. He has been productive in yards, TDs, and Super Bowl rings. I would say we are better with him, worse without him, because of what he brings to the young WRs. He speeds up their development.
Terrell Owens, when asked what the most important thing he learned from Jerry Rice was, answered "work ethic." TO, love em or hate em, is productive on the field because he works his tail off. You're right that Bruce is a great competitor and Jones, Morgan, Hill, Crabtree, and Zeigler would do well to pay close attention to his example. Do I think Bruce would handle being 3 or 4 on the depth chart well? No, I think he will outperform his competition or retire. That said, Bruce will be the Niners leading receiver this season. Who else has shown it?
Matt,
This has been a topic that intrigues me. Often QB's have "favorite" receivers. How does the competition between Hill and Smith impact what WR's might be more successful this season? (are any WR's rooting for one or ther other WB?)