When I touched base with him last week, the executive producer who created ESPN's NFL Match-Up was busy perusing the coaches film from the 49ers-Falcons game. Here is a portion of my interview with the always-insightful Cosell . . .
Has the play of the 49ers' defensive front seven impressed you?
Cosell: "For the most part. I think Justin Smith is playing really well - probably better than any point that I can remember. (Patrick) Willis is playing well. That's not a profound statement. He's just a really good player. Yeah, I think their front seven is pretty good. At the end of the day, for a 3-4, they don't have a pure pass-rushing outside linebacker. I don't (Parys) Haralson is necessarily that guy. But, no, I think their defense for the most part is very solid."
What would concern you about their defense?
Cosell: "Lack of a consistent pass rush."
The pass rush and, thusly, the secondary played very well the first four games, but against the Falcons neither showed up.
Cosell: "Well, it's interesting you say that because the Falcons are probably the only team in the league that aligns with two backs and two tight ends and throws the ball vertically down the field from that personnel package. If you align with two backs and two tight ends, No. 1, you pretty much guarantee protection and you make it difficult to blitz and pressure the quarterback because you essentially can have eight-man protection. When the Falcons are playing well offensively, it's very difficult to pressure Matt Ryan. The Roddy White 31-yard touchdown came out of two backs and two tight ends. White was the only wide receiver on the field. So much of this league comes down to matchups: who you're playing against and what that team does."
Do you think that's a team the 49ers simply don't match up against?
Cosell: "Yeah, because they don't have individual pass rushers who can win. They're trying to scheme. They were not able to do that against the Falcons."
And from what you could tell from the 49ers' earlier games, they were able to scheme their pass rush?
Cosell: "Yes, they had some success. And as I said, I think Smith has been very good individually. I remember the game against
On the other side of the ball, the 49ers have some problems, don't they?
Cosell: "The one thing fans might not realize is that coaches know exactly what their players can and can't do. If a team gets down, like the Niners, and they can't throw to get back in the game and fans go, 'Oh, my, they can't throw!' Well, the 49ers know that, too. They can't play in those kinds of games. They can't win those kinds of games. They have to play in games where their defense keeps the game close, so their offense can run the ball. I think (Shaun) Hill has had some nice moments this year. I thought his (fourth-quarter) drive against Arizona Week 1 was very, very good. I have some problems with the way
Knowing what you know about Hill, is it simple to defend him and defend this offense?
Cosell: "It then comes down to running the ball. The myth is you can't run against eight in the box. Yes, you can run against eight in the box and everybody runs against eight in the box. Good running teams run against eight in the box. It's how you choose to run. It comes down to what kind of runs and blocking schemes. They will face eight in the box. Most good running teams do. You need to be able to run the ball against eight in the box. If you're a good running team, by definition, it's a volume offense. You have to run a lot of plays."
And that's a major disappointment for this team that they have not been able to sustain drives with their run game. They're among the worst in the league in three-and-outs.
Cosell: "What you have to do is throw the ball in running situations to try to create some opportunities. At some point, you need to try to throw in normal down-and-distance situations out of run personnel and run formations. When the defense is in predictable fronts and predictable coverages, you can throw better. Everything is a game of tendency and matchups. All preparation is based on probability and tendency."
If I were to tell you that the 49ers run 55.3 percent of the time on first and 10, would you think that's about right?
Cosell: "Then it all comes down to calculated shots. Much of throwing on first and 10, as well, comes down to where you are on the field. Between the 40s is an excellent place to throw the ball on first and 10. I'm not sure if I'm the Niners I'd want to be throwing the ball on first and 10 a whole lot if I'm inside my own 25. I think if they're struggling with three and outs, you have to find a way to sustain offense."
I know you haven't seen him play in two years, but is there where Alex Smith, because of his arm strength and the better physical tools, might be the better option at quarterback?
Cosell: "Well, I don't think Alex Smith has particularly good physical tools. Certainly, we know Shaun Hill has an average to below-average NFL arm. You're right, we haven't seen Alex Smith throw in two years, but the last time we did see him throw and even when he came out (of college), I'd say Alex Smith's arm strength was slightly better than average - nothing more. I'm always leery - I know he's a smart kid - but I don't know how much he's learned. I'm not there. When you play in the Urban Meyer offense, and I can tell you for a fact, that when Alex Smith went through his board work for teams coming out of the draft that he had zero clue about NFL route combinations, which is not surprising. Because in Urban Meyer's offense, nobody does. I'm not a big Alex Smith guy. I think he has limited skills and I think he's got limited understanding."
Is the offensive line the reason . .
Cosell: "It's been erratic. There have been a couple games where I thought they got handled and didn't do much. And other games . . . for instance, the second half of the
Anyone on that line stand out - positive or negative?
Cosell: "My short answer is no. It's a line that needs to play with cohesion. I don't think they have any All Pros, nor do I think they have any stiffs."
What do you see Michael Crabtree adding to the wide receiver mix?
Cosell: "I liked Crabtree coming out. I think he's a big kid and has some physicality to him, and he's got some quickness. He's going to have learn NFL route trees. He doesn't know any of that, and he's been out of camp. That's the problem you face with these guys who played in a spread offense in college. I watch a ton of college tape, too, when it comes to the offseason. The two games are totally, totally different. I think he's got physical tools. I think it'll take him a while. Having said that, they'll probably give him three routes and put him out there. Is the idea that he'll play after the bye week?
Yes, he's spending the bye week with the coaching staff trying to learn as much as possible so he'll be able to get on the field next Sunday against the Texans.
Cosell: "He's a good receiver for Shaun Hill. He's limited in the kind of throws he can make. He's a short passer and the ball has to come out quick. And I think ultimately with Crabtree, at least initially, you hope he can catch the ball and with his strength and after-the-catch ability give you something. That's what you're hoping. Right now, you're not going to ask him to run deep routes. He's not a burner anyway. But I think in time he'll develop into a guy who can get vertical - not with blinding speed. He's never going to be Andre Johnson. I think you hope he develops - and I hate to throw this name out because people might think he's this guy - but Larry Fitzgerald is not a burner, either. But I think in time they hope he can become that kind of receiver."
* * *
Speaking of Crabtree, ever since he signed in the wee hours back on Oct. 7, I've had a difficult time sleeping through the night. But that's OK, it's a good time to get some work accomplished - such as transcribing the above interview.
For the bye week, I'm with the family. We're having a majestic time touring Apple Hill from our base camp in Pollock Pines. And I'm up early, trying to scheme ways to sneak in some TV time today.
Meanwhile, readers of The Press Democrat opened their morning paper to read this article about 49ers coach Mike Singletary strongly suggesting he'll make a lineup change at right guard when the club returns to practice this week.
* * *
On a more-serious note, 49ers defensive lineman Isaac Sopoaga and
Very thoughtful interview. Thanks for uploading.
Any Cosell insights on Nate Davis? Maybe you can ask him next time...
Really interesting to get a team perspective from a guy like Greg. I particularly was interested in his assessment of Alex Smith, whom I keep holding out hope he'll develop into an NFL QB.
If much of what he said is true of the Niners you can see how other teams should have a fairly easy job of game planning the Niners and how defenses have some advantages in field position coverages vrs another team that has more of a high powered offense.
You gotta give it to Sing though I think he is doing a hell of a good with what he has at the moment.
Thanks Matt...really good stuff
Wow, he hit all the nails on the head with his diagnosis on Alex Smith.
QB coach Mike Johnson was even stressing in an interview you made ages back that Alex Smith has had little-to-no fundamentals whatsoever within terms of route combos. -Like I've been telling people, Meyer only set Smith up to be a gimmick-captain in a college offense (no prep what-so-ever for being an NFL QB).
Smith has the physical tools, but he's needed a proper tutor for quite some time to understand/read NFL defenses.
Matt, you posted this article at 3:56 AM. Do you sleep at all?
Thanks for the great interview. Nice work!
I 2nd what blitzonic said. Would love to hear what Cosell has to say on Nate.
This pretty much sums everything up with the Niners personnel. Hill is a decent backup at best and A. Smith has no business as an NFL quarterback. The O-line is average all around and no individual pass rushers on defense. All those people who used to complain about Nolan's decision to pull Manny Lawson on third downs aren't talking anymore. Looks like the man was right about Lawson all along.
Hi Matt, It's 7:42pm in India. You put so much into your coverage, we as fans are spoiled. Greg said things matter of fact especially about Alex. I'm curious to find out what he thinks of Nate Davis. I've been an Alex fan since he was drafted but I keep thinking that Coach has seen him from day one out of Utah. If Alex had it he would be in there. I'm hoping the team learns from its' mistakes and mentors Nate better than they did Alex. They have ammunition for the 2010 draft and I believe the team will sink or swim with their decisions on draft day.
Nice to get that kind of outside perspective. Other teams we face will look at the Falcons game and come at us in a similar way. If the OL can improve over the course of the season, I think the offense will be good enough not to lose, but if we can't get a consistent pass rush, the defense won't be good enough to win. The pass rushers need to improve in individual match ups. Will they? The season could ride on that question.
He's Howard Cosell's nephew not Bill Walsh. If he says P.Willis is a bust, do we believe him as well? I will take Urban Meyer's assessment on AS before a reporter. Hell Matt, I would take your evaluations before a decedent of Howard's.
No offense! :-)
Thanks Matt-nice piece. Kit I concur, Coach Singletary is doing a bang up job with the present team.I'm sure some of us remember when Mike Ditka was asked if M Singletary would be a good coach-and his response was (I paraphrase)"absolutely but you gotta have the horses to win the race".We still need some "horses" to complete the team.It isn't much of a mystery as to what positions need strengthening and Mr Cosell alludes to them here,as many of us have around these parts(OL,Pass Rusher,etc.).With a stout defense and a reconfigured OL(I haven't given up on Chilo but some time on the bench might clarify his intentions) coupled with a little more utilization of our offensive weapons,Coach Singletary's exemplary motivational skills may still bring us to the post season this year.
Great article Matt. Now go enjoy your time with family and get some rest!
Great insight, but rather depressing. One can't help pining for Davis, after the takes on Hill and Smith. I think i have to give MS some serious credit. He has a team with some mediocre talent in important areas (OL, pass rush, QB) at 3-2.
Start studying hard McL. YOu need to score some serious bodies for the OL/DL in next year's draft.
BTW, the skinny on Smith coming out of college really does underscore what a profound error McL made drafting Smith. I know we had squat for QB's but a good GM knows whether a draft is a good one or a weak one. C'est la vie
Good stuff Matt. Now maybe Alex fans will take the blindfolds off. He seems like a great guy, but that alone doesn't cut it in the NFL. I was hoping the 9ers would make a bid at J peppers before Tuesday. If he hits the market next season I don't see the niners having a shot. And I hope they don't waste a pick next year on a qb. It's about time they take care of the o-line. Develope N Davis, and sign a pass rusher. O-line in the draft or maybe pick up a solid guard this off season. Could be big for this team. It might not be a sexy off season but it could take this team to the next level.
Have u seen Peppers play this year? There's a reason why few teams want him. He sucks. Even in his prime the experts always felt he was overrated. Then you look at the kind of money he wants and it's pretty obvious why no one is interested in him.
Excellent Interview Matt. Great analysis of the Alex Smith / Urban Meyer situation. Does anyone know if any Urban Meyer coached QB has made it big in the NFL?
The thing that bothers me about McCloughan is not so much that a mistake was made in picking Smith over Rodgers. We all know the draft is not an exact science. Anybody remembers Bill Walsh drafting Reggie McGrew? The real problem with McCloughan is his refusal to admit that a mistake was made and moving on. The fact that Smith is even on the team this year shown that McCloughan is still hoping against hope that Smith will pan out. Give it up Scotty. It's not going to work.
It's funny how people rave about how great Justin Smith has been playing but he has a total of 11 tackles and 1 sack. Sopoaga gets no credit and he is constantly facing double teams since he is the baddest street fighter on the DL. Because of this, he opens it up for others to make the tackle. Sopoaga has 10 tackles himself which is only one less than Smith, and is a key figure in stopping the run, yet he gets criticized. Go figure.
Alex Smith fans? I thought the only one left was oneniner!
Seriously, this guy Cosell really knows his football. Much more so than any of the other "analysts" on TV who were only hired because they played the game pretty well at one time in their life.
It's not pretty 49er fans. Singletary has a bunch of overachievers. Any other coach and we're a 6-10 team. With Sing, we might actually make the play-offs.
McCloughan should have just one goal between now and April...figure out if Nate Davis is our QB or if we have to use our draft picks to roll the dice on another guy. It's obvious Hill and Smith are not going to lead us into the playoffs without All-Pro talent at the other 10 positions on offense.
Matt,
I thought you were taking the weekend off. Get some rest, you deserve it!!
Those of you who are concluding from this article that Cosell believes that Shaun Hill is a bad quarterback are putting your own prejudices into your opinions. He was pretty complimentary about Shaun's play this year, though he did say that he has an average to below average arm. He said that Shaun is not a guy to make throw after throw to win games - but in the Minnesota game he was 9 for 10 in the final touchdown drive, and in the Arizona game completed one third down pass after another for the winning score. So with a decent offensive line - and during those drives the offensive line was keeping the pass rush out better - I believe that Shaun is capable of some magic - just not the long passes we'd love to see.
I wish Matt had asked him about Nate Davis. I strongly suspect he would be very skeptical that Davis could play decently at this point. Down the road, who knows?
Thanks Matt for allowing a nuetral opinion to bring reality to some in the blog, Reality doesnt come easy here. I think the biggest problem is Scot McCloughan simply because he responsible for the personel on this team. He makes bad decision after bad decision,and i think its time for him to go. Actually i KNOW its time for him to go. no way in hell do i allow McCloughan to screw up the most important draft for the franchise since the Alex Smith debacle.
Matt, thanks for another great interview. Cosell clearly is not afraid to tell it like he sees it. Seems he is not too keen on Smith or Hill. With that being said, do you think the Niners go after another QB in the draft next year, or are they going to stick with the 3 stooge combo they have now?
Lodi i would be very skeptical about the 49ers picking a QB high only for one reason. Who would develop a raw rookie? Who do they have who could bring out the best in any rookie. I dont think we have the offensive coaching to develop,I mean we draft a great prospect and deliver him to Jimmy Raye?
Nothing particularly newsworthy about Cosell's views. Pretty much common knowledge to anyone who follows the team. Nice to see the kudos to the mostly criticized Raye for the Minnesota adjustments. His views on Smith are four years old, so not really very relevant. I'm sure Smith is familiar with the NFL route combinations by now.
About the O Line
Cosell: "My short answer is no. It's a line that needs to play with cohesion. I don't think they have any All Pros, nor do I think they have any stiffs."
----
The poorest offensive line in the NFL at pass protection over the last four years. We need a dominating LT, move Staley back to RT where he will be better and solve a problem. Finally don't be afraid to pay for guards.
Hill is not going to be a guy who's going to consistently drop back and make throw after throw after throw to either keep you in games or win games
No kidding! He's rarely able to sustain a drive. If it weren't for the defense and a powder-puff schedule the second half of last year, Singletary wouldn't be the head coach. We'd have finished 4-12 and gotten an offensive-minded HC instead of Droppa-my-Pantz as HC...His views on Smith are four years old, so not really very relevant. I'm sure Smith is familiar with the NFL route combinations by now.
Irony is that if you look at a lot of Hill's internal stats (stuff not the minor difference in QB rating caused by Smith's desperation throws in 2006), he's slightly worse than Smith for 2006. Definitely worse than Smith's first three games in 2007 where his WRs and TE dropped 13 of his first 86 passes and the run game did not exist.
What's scarier, is that we're coming to the HARD part of the schedule. Hill is failing through the easy-part. I'm thinking if Smith doesn't replace him, we'll be lucky to go 2-5 over the next seven. And if Smith does replacement, we'll be lucky to break .500 since it's going to take a while to get him up to NFL speed.
Singletary's fear of offensive mistakes costing us games is going to bite us in the butt. Sooner he's fired and we get an offensive coach (keeping the defensive staff, which I'm perfectly fine with) the happier I'll be.
Great point ... now what does this say about Tim Tebow and the fact that so many experts have him slotted as a high first round prospect?
The case of Smith vs. Hill for starting QB: EXPERT WITNESS Cosell to the chair! What are your thought On Smith's ability? ANSWER:
Cosell says: "Well, I don't think Alex Smith has particularly good physical tools. Certainly, we know Shaun Hill has an average to below-average NFL arm. You're right, we haven't seen Alex Smith throw in two years, but the last time we did see him throw and even when he came out (of college), I'd say Alex Smith's arm strength was slightly better than average - nothing more. I'm always leery - I know he's a smart kid - but I don't know how much he's learned. I'm not there. When you play in the Urban Meyer offense, and I can tell you for a fact, that when Alex Smith went through his board work for teams coming out of the draft that he had zero clue about NFL route combinations, which is not surprising. Because in Urban Meyer's offense, nobody does. I'm not a big Alex Smith guy. I think he has limited skills and I think he's got limited understanding."
For all those commenters that are constantly pushing for Smith to replace Hill and are blinded by some kind of mirage of what Smith is and his QB ability, I say! Fellas! CASE CLOSED!!
Matt, Sincere thanks for this interesting read!
Based on these comments/insights this is an indictment of McC. Why would any GM burn a #1 pick on a QB of the future with average skills and limited understanding of Pro style offense? Let's see if Tebow drops like a rock in the next draft to confirm this opinion. Based on results I think Cossell's assessment is spot on. Smith just doesn't have it and probably never will. We went into last years draft needing OT, Pass rusher and a QB of the future and got neither of the critical 1st two and a big question mark with Davis. After years of high O line picks all we have is a below average line. Proof is in the pudding, we are coached better now but still are missing the horses.
The biggest problem with the OL is the coaching. Foerster is not a good OL coach.
I'll be glad when this off date is over and we hit next Sunday! It's been a time where we have entered the Dark Ages in 49er land!
We have a 3 and 2 record and are in first place, but the weak kneed so called 49er fans, better known as "rats," are trying their damndest to make it seem the 49ers are 0 and 5! They're like the idiots on the TV News Networks who only speak about crap that doesn't mean squat but they make the crap be the only essence of every news story! You know, they go beserk about stuff that matters little other than getting the viewer (or reader here) all bent out of shape and make it seem the sky will fall at any second!
If the NY Giants have fans like these (I'm sure they do,) after today the Giants are done! They got ripped by the Saints today! Time to get rid of Manning! Coughlin should be hung because he's not a winner! The OC sucks big time and has sucked since he came to the team! My God! How many times did they run up the middle? I don't even want to tell you what they think of the DC! Yea! The Giants are down there with the Lions and the Browns!
And what about the Ravens? They came alive in the last quarter of the game but their kicker stubbed his toe, literally, and the Ravens are done for the season! Harbaugh can't win the ones he needs too! Flacco was always a choke, and of course these rats always knew this but nobody ever listened to them! Their defense has sucked for years! And MAN! That Lewis shouldn't be allowed to even visit the Hall of Fame!
Well that's the way it is when you read the comments written by those who inhabit the Dark Ages! They love being there and love to suck anybody they can into it!
Myself!? I like the light! Hell! I even like Light Beer! I love when the sun comes up! I get a little nervous when I'm trying to do anything when it's completely dark! I like to get a flash light and put a little light on things! You know what I mean?
There wasn't much done in the Dark Ages! In fact, most historians believe intelligence stopped and nothing of any consequence was able to come out of that darkness!
I kind of like the Enlightenment Period! Just seems less depressive to me!
Thanks Matt,great work.
Finally an expert puts the discussion to rest on A.Smith. Agreed we need a better OL coach. Does Mckittric have a son?
Glad razoreater can finally relax since an "expert" put the A. Smith discussion to rest...Dude don't take Smith's career personal, its not about you!!! Don't read or respond if you want it to end...U IDIOT!!!!
Dude...what's you're point?
Are you trying to say that an "expert witness" has stated that AS will "never be an NFL-caliber QB" like all you armchair Monday morning GM's claim? Cosell says that he's not a big fan of Smith's game. Neither am I. He's got a lot to improve on, and nobody knows it more than Smith does. That's why he's putting in the work.
Where did MM ask if he thought Smith could be a good QB in the future? I guess it wasn't asked. Good fodder for the Monday morning armchair GM's to comment about.
Bottom line, I've said it a million times already...nobody knows whether Smith will become a good player or a bust. You can't know NOW. It's still a work in progress. To claim that you know the answers already means that you think your 40+ years of experience sitting on your couch trumps McCloughan's experience as a GM. McCloughan signed Smith and he survived the cuts. Get over it. He's got some upside that you guys are blind to.
Had a great weekend, thanks for asking.
Regarding your last post on the other topic...you're still not following. I'm not living an Alex Smith starting QB dream. Not even close. I'm living a dream where people don't act as if they're the almighty authority on the future of individual players. If you end up being right, then you're right. We won't know for a while. But if you're right, then yes, maybe McCloughan and I can get a group discount on therapy. Until then, quit acting like you have the credentials to take McCloughan's job.
For all of you still adamant on bashing Alex Smith, Cosell's key statement was this...
"I know he's a smart kid - but I don't know how much he's learned. I'm not there."
You noticed Cosell's comments continued to analyze him based on his college experience, right? Based on what happened BEFORE he learned NFL route combinations.
Some of you people are ready to jump on ANYTHING.
Good stuff. Thanks, Indiana Jim.
For some of you, this is what's called reading WITH comprehension.
NFL FACTOID
Through the first five weeks of the season, teams with a 300-yard passer have a combined record of 23-8 (.742). The 23 combined wins for clubs with a 300-yard passer are the most in NFL history through the first five weeks of a season.
Dude! I could build the Great Wall of China faster than Smith will ever learn to be a decent NFL QB! The guy was saying, nicely I may add, Smith doesn't have it upstairs!
And as far as anyone being "Monday morning GM," you seem to have gotten an early start since you're doing your expert GM mouth off on Sunday!
"I'm not a big Alex Smith guy. I think he has limited skills and I think he's got limited understanding."
ouch what a witty slam.
matt, you found one hell of an interview subject.
Hey you guys? I saw Drew Brees throw 2 TD passes that wobbled like Hill's have done! The Saints better put their number 2 QB in there right away! Brees' arm looks mighty week!
And your credentials are what.....tell me, Mr. Knows The Future And All That Is Football...what are your credentials? What makes you smarter and wiser than McCloughan?
Matt -
Great stuff!
Secondly, how do I get that guys job?
Wow, it sure sucks to hear someone with so much cred give such a sobering assesment of our beloved Niners, even if many of us have been saying the same thing. I guess I'm more of a homer than I thought.
..Good Read MM....
Interesting.... both A.smith and Crabtree played the spread offense in college succesfully....
By the way Smith turned out! He was a bust the day he put the 49er hat on at the draft! They had a kid a couple miles away and went to Utah to find a loser who doesn't know jack about the NFL and still doesn't! And I knew it day one! That's all the credentials I need! OK? Mr.Sunday Night GM!
I never knew McCloughan went to the NFL School of Winning Football? I should have because he's had so many winning teams in SF! Or maybe it was you!?
Nope! Couldn't be you! They don't take Fatheads in that school! Anybody who has that for name is an automatic reject!
Ok, I got it. You have no credentials.
I chose my name to honor the greatest coach I ever had.
He hated trying to get my name right, so I become "fathead", which was a lot easier for him to deal with.
You have never played the game, it's apparent now.
AGAIN, I ASK YOU ONE MORE TIME...WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS??? DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL????
I will keep posting this when the A. Smith acolytes begin their banter until one of them comes up with a realistic answer.
If Alex smith is so good then why couldn't he out perform Shaun Hill to earn the starting job?
Better yet... If you think Shaun Hill sucks....AND.... A. Smith couldn't out perform him in preseason, how is A. Smith a better choice?
Its a simple question.
There is no way A. Smith just magically became the QB you all wish he was overnight. Wake up! The Dream is over!
By now, you should start feeling like the red headed stepchild that gets ignored. You've been ignored for a couple of days now. Just so you know. Obviously you're not picking it up on your own.
yawn....
Oh comon, the kid deserves one more chance....
Then if the kid don't perform, he is better of in the UFL.
I will be the first to jump right off the kids bandwagon.
Fact Missed? Nolan pulled the trigger on Alex, not Scot.
Once you spend #1 Money on a QB and he doesn't produce, you spend countless time trying to repair the damage created to the CAP.
Give McC some credit, Paraag and Alex too, for restructuring the deal to allow some of that damage to be minimized.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but for now, Alex has a position coach and time to learn. We need all the work he can put in if we are to need him down the stretch.
Right now, lets hope for better line play and, continuing improvement on the pass pressure and pass protection/production.
Matt
Great interview -- perfect for the bye week. Thanks a lot.
McNolan (and it was more Nolan than Mc) picked Smith when neither of the them had the experience nor the personnel to assess the QBs in the draft. They had been learning on the job.
We note that the league-wide realization that spread offenses do not train QBs for the NFL is relatively recent, and Smith is Exhibit A (Vince Young is Exhibit B -- am I missing anyone here?).
In fact, Joe Montana recently commented on this issue in an interview with Dallas Morning News (see link below).
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/092409dnspogosselincol.37a0841.html
Even if they did not realize the preparation shortcomings of spread offense QBs, McNolan would have benefited greatly from one of Bill Walsh's drafting guidelines: do not draft players in the early rounds who have not started 3-4 years in college. (Walsh's approach was repeated again recently by Mike Lombardi in Bill Simmon's BS Report of 10/15. It's a nice 45 minute chat if you have the time: http://search.espn.go.com/bill-simmons/ ).
I'm praying for pass rush and pass protection too! haha... so bad...
Although, Hill could help himself a little bit by kicking out of the pocket earlier to by time for the receivers. I frustrates me to no end when he camps in the pocket too long and ends up WALKING into a defender for a sack. his weird throwing mechanics are actually good for those types of broken plays. not a very consistent style, but it's right up hill's get'erdun, grinder mentality.
Fathead
Reading.
Reading with comprehension.
Two different skills.
This is a blog. Making sense is not obligatory.
Marc-NJ49er
I just hate it when people with intact memories insist on posting factual information.
Agreed about Shaun in the pocket, he lacks that extra 'sense' to feel his way around to buy time, but to his defense, the OL rarely affords him a comfort zone in which to operate.
Hence the Alex Smith conundrum, leaky Oline + inexperienced QB=wasted CAP dollars and dimishing returns.
Can't undo what Nolan missed on when the QB was picked at 1, but at least the Deal was restructured and helps to some extent.
Sad reality I'm afraid jestasmaltownboy, Nolan went QB instead of building an OL to protect him. Jonas was a noble effort of course, but alas, another overpriced WHIFF.
Nate Clements? FS posing as a CB, but got paid as a CB.
Cart before the Horse mentality gets you in trouble every time.
Anybody know how to get Greg Cosell's job? Sounds like the sweetest gig in town!
It would be more fun just to have the Coach's Tape to watch IMO Yazo. Not the made for TV stuff that we all have to deal with.
Once you see the stuff Greg (and other's like him) provide, you find out all the little nuances that help you improve on the things you originally thought you knew how to do.
you know the simple solution to our horrible line play is just, go max protect in passing situations, having our strongest edge blocker Vernon stay in and get his body on someone.
cossel really made sense when he was talking about personnel packages. the two tightend, two back set transitioning to a max protection scheme owning the niners. I don't see why the niners can't have a formation like that, or having a 2 te 1 back set to help protect hill. bruce is crafty enough to find a hole somewhere in time, and if the pass rush is weak, then gore, vd, or even walker can slip their block for a dump off. but seeing them get the free release while hill gets hammered, whether it's his fault or not, is really frustrating.
Absolutely. Hence the reason Rathman is there to assist with the implementation plan I think.
We've got to get more involved with the WCO philosophy and shorten the routes. Timing breaks down Defenses as well. I'm looking forward to seeing some Slant Route introduction, hopefully, with Crabtree coming into the fold. We've got miles to go before we threaten the Powerhouses in fhe NFC certainly, but we're in great shape in the West for right now.
We haven't found ANY rhythm on Offense,(just to state the obvious).
i agree with Greg Cosell on one thing....the simple solution is to be able to pass out of running formation......
that is why ATL is succesful...that is why both the saints and vikings are succesfull .....i bet nobody thought the saints actually ran more runnings plays than passing....
...the issue then becomes does your QB has the arm strength and accuracy to beat a corner back and does your QB do the little things to deceive the safety....
from what we have seen Shaun Hill does not do both.....
i don't know NOW if A.Smith can do both either but i did see A.Smith throw to out patterns and WR's comeback routes when he was in there......
this were routes A.Smith was not throwing to in year one...he started throwing to the outs and comebacks in the begining of year 3....
..in short there is no denying A.Smith has shown SOME GROWTH from year 1 to year 3 before the injury.....which makes me believe he will always get better as he gets more experience....
S.Hill instead has not shown ANY GROWTH since day 1....i bet if i ask anyone what is s.hill best pass play - all of you will say the middle of the field to Davis....
it seems S.Hill's main focus is the middle of the field and when that options is defended (like ATL did)....he cant improvise or do anything else.....
when defenses play Zone S.hill misses alot of passes but does a below average job of finding one or two completions....
when defenses play Man S.hill overthrows most of his passes and runs the ball himself....
Matt,
I'd be curious to know which college programs Cosell believes actually puts a QB in the best position to be ready for the NFL. Meyer runs a variation of a double wing offense which isn't exactly a spread offense but it's fairly close. Since many successful colleges are running the spread now which ones, if any, would prepare a kid to answer questions about NFL route combinations? I'm not a Smith backer but criticizing his knowledge of NFL route combinations at the combine seems a little harsh. His limited physical ability and mental makeup to be a quality NFL starter is definitely valid.
Again, I ask, why is Alex Smith still on this team?? He has no long term future here. Nate Davis is the future and it's time to cut the cord. If Cleveland would make a swap with the 49ers Brady Quinn for Alex Smith I would make that trade before the deadline.
Yeah I have seen him play. Do ya think maybe because his team sucks and he has been franchised the last two years are the reasons he is not playing so well this year? Maybe just maybe he is playing not to get hurt.... it is a contract he is going for next year. And if you really think he is overrated, you are an idiot. Five teams are looking at him because he came out and said he wants to play a 3-4 scheme, and he named the few teams he wanted to play for. He would fit in very well with the 9ers defense. Sighning him would boost that pass rush way beyond where their at right now. Top 5 defense in the league. GAURANTEED!!!!!! Dont have an Alex Smith argument?
While YOU sit there in YOUR monday morning arm chair playing Mr Knowitall. Once again Smith panty wearers. IF YOU CANT EVEN THROW A 10 YARD PASS ACCURATLY YOU ARE A BUST! If you cant see that the #1 draft pick 4 years ago isnt even on the field theres a reason for that. HE IS A BUST. And I dont give a crap if he will be a good qb somewhere else. If he does ever become a good qb somewhere else, you and other 9er bashers should pack up and go with him. THIS COMMENT WAS MADE BY A REAL 49ER FAN THAT ISNT BLINDLY IN LOVE WITH A BUST. ON HIS COUCH ENJOYING HIS DAY OFF.
Peppers is overrated. His own teammates are calling him out because his effort sucks. He IS NOT a good fit for the 9ers defense. He may want to play in a 3/4 but he is best suited for a 4/3. Shaq wanted to play point guard at one time... that wasn't such a good idea either. The 9ers would not only have to trade for the guy they'd also have to offer a contract so that he would stop "playing not to get hurt (because) it is a contract he is going for next year." Having said all that, I might give up a 4th rounder for him, but not much more.
Alex Smith was trained in the spread offense. That is his natural position. I think he does have talent but was poorly utilized and was put behind a horrible line with little mentoring. It would have taken him 3 to 4 years to develop into a drop-back passer. Unfortunately he suffered a serious injury and Nolan was covering his own butt by playing him. Hill had five years to become an NFL QB. I can see him going to a team that does run the spread like the Pats or Indy as a back-up and doing well.
What made me sick was watching Michael Oher playing Jarret Allen yesterday at LT against the best D end in the league. Although Smith made a few plays Oher looked great as a rookie and held his own, especially in the second half. He would have made an immediate contribution to the Niners
I think McCloughan is a poor judge of O Linemen. Perhaps he needs to get a good scout in charge of O linemen prospects.
Now your going to come to your own defense Mr Smith. Can you name your best pass play? I can. Roll out right every play. Cut off half the feild immediatly. Try to look like Montana replaying THE CATCH. And then throw it out of bounds or 2 yards short of the reciever standing there 3 yards short of the 1st down marker completly ignoring the wide open reciever on the left side of the field. Then clap your hands like damn I almost made that 7 yard pass. Everyone can improve but damn it will take 10 years for that to happen with the way your going. Mr Smith. Shaun Hill beat you out. NUFF SAID!
For those with short memories, Raye considered the QB competition a DRAW. Hill kept his job not because he was better, but because he was the incumbent. Asking why Smith is still on the team, ergo, is tantamount to asking why Hill is still on the team. Since you can't improve a "below average" arm, but can improve your knowledge of "route trees", it makes more sense that Smith is still on the team than Hill. Right now, they are both back-up QBs. One will always be that and the other might get better. It could all be moot if Davis develops next year, but for now Smith gives us a back-up QB who is JUST AS GOOD AS THE STARTER. Put away your emotional hate fest on Smith and try rooting for both guys. And guess what, if you haters do that, this constant discussion will cease to exist.
I don't remember seeing any of you at the practice facilities this last week. Oh, I guess you weren't there to watch Alex and Crabs practice. Well neither was I. I don't know if A. Smith has improved and neither do you. We do know what Hill can do and what he can't. I have said it numerous times, I am thankful what Hill has done so far but his skills (or lack thereof) will only get us to a 9-7 team (I hope I am wrong). We don't know if Alex is a bust or not. I think the way to go is try a "healthy" A. Smith at QB and see where he is. If he doesn't pan out, move on. If he does work, you can send him your apologies to the address listed below.....
Sorry about that what I meant to say
"What made me sick was watching Michael Oher playing Jarret Allen yesterday at LT against the best D end in the league. Although Allen made a few plays Oher looked great as a rookie and held his own, especially in the second half. He would have made an immediate contribution to the Niners."
I also would have taken Crabtree at 10, but we needed Oher in restrposect.
..9-7 - the way things are looking now that is generous
With S.Hill at QB....
i see 8 -8 at best
currently we are 3-2
@ Houston-L
@ Indianapolis-L
Tennessee- W
Chicago - L
Green Bay - L
Jacksonville - W
@ Seattle - W
Arizona - L
@ Philadelphia -L
Detroit - W
@ St. Louis - W
..9-7 - the way things are looking now that is generous
With S.Hill at QB....
i see 8 -8 at best
currently we are 3-2
@ Houston-L
@ Indianapolis-L
Tennessee- W
Chicago - L
Green Bay - L
Jacksonville - W
@ Seattle - W
Arizona - L
@ Philadelphia -L
Detroit - W
@ St. Louis - W
Nice interview. Interesting about Justin Smith, and Harrylson not being the answer.
As far as the Hill-Smith comments, go...
With all due respect, who here ever said Hill was Peyton Manning or Matt Ryan? He is the best we have and has a winning record. He is a quarterback who leads and wins, but I never thought he'd be the quarterback beyond this season or next.
Smith? Not good enough. Couldn't beat out Hill. Best part of his game is giving interviews in which he sounds earnest.
...the game we win - i can see the niner defense shutting down the other teams offense
the game we lose - i can see the other teams QB's outplaying our QB...
Again to ignore facts is the idiot pointing fingers. The facts are the facts and A.Smith does not possess the ability to be an NFL QB in this league period. He will not be here next year. He will be a career backup if he's lucky.
Yeah I saw Oher too. It made me almost throw up thinking he could be on our line. Oher played Allen MUCH better than Staley played him. Oher looks like he's going to be a stud for a very long time. Let's hope Crabs earns everything in that contract.
Are there any updates on the 49ers making a trade before the deadline? I think we could trade for a vet. o-lineman and draft Colt McCoy and Taylor Mayes.
Ahhhh I love to dream....
You guys can go on and on about Michael Oher, but you need to realize we chose the right Michael. If McCloughan had passed on Crabtree the 49ers fan base would have gone berserk. There is no doubt in my mind 98% of you would have crashed Matt's blog calling for McCloughan to be fired. Let's remember we have Mr. Crabtree for 5 and 3/4 years before we jump to any conclusions after 5 games. By all reports, Crabtree he has looked very impressive in practice the last few weeks. Yes we could use a solid starting RT for the next 6 years, but what this team desperately needs is play makers on offense not named Gore or Davis, that will keep DBs and Defensive coordinators up at night. We need a game changer that can grab the momentum from the other team with one electric play. We have not had that at WR since #81 left town and by all accounts we do now with #15.
the only issue i have with your comment....
"Crabtree he has looked very impressive in practice the last few weeks."
....yea - with throws from A.Smith......
....i guess we will find out next sunday in houston when S.Hill throws the ball....
MM - Just saw your response tweet to someone talking about Tebow's leadership. I literally LOL'd.
You are correct. almost every niner fan I know and what I read on websites the next day after the draft. Were the niners were soooo lucky in getting such a talent. Now most are off the ship or saying why didnt they get someone else. Thats why they should draft some stud o-lineman next year. Get Nate Davis some reps and see how he works out.
Agreed.
Ok - I'm fine with the fact that Cosell from NFL films has seen film of A. Smith prior to the draft and his first 2 years with the Niners and concluded he has limited skills and understanding of NFL routes. My feeling is that Hill isn't the answer either. Many are so passionate about slamming Smith that they neglect to view Hill as very subpar as well. His first 5 games are just plain bad. Defense has been outstanding and has kept us in those games. Problem is will defense hold up playing more minutes than other teams? Singletary has not come up with a solution. All I see is interviews of Singletary saying we will get better, we need to work harder, without any strategy or plan. I still believe that we will go 8-8, but I'm hoping we are lucky enough or get a break for 9-7. Either way, the offense lacks creativity and production. Defense gets added pressure from Singletary to be perfect every time out due to major weaknesses on the offense. This is the NFL and playoff teams typically have good QB's and a good offense that can bring them back from a deficit. Time will tell of the Niners will evolve on both sides of the ball...
Fathead: Actually its not that people are ignoring me its that people who DO NOT believe smith is the answer don't see a reason to answer the question and those that are supporting Smith CANT answer the question so therefore you try to make it sound as if people are ignoring me...? What a joke.
Skeebers tried to say the competition was tied in the preseason and by default went to Hill. That was not the case as I will explain below.
Skeebers you are mistaken.
Remember Matts post here where he said
"In my opinion, Hill is starting to inch ahead in the quarterback competition. Perhaps, I'm even downplaying it. Hill might actually be taking a commanding lead based on how he seems more at ease in unfamiliar, unscripted activities - such as these practices against the Raiders."
Then he posted this just before Hill was named starter:
" --The general perception is that Shaun Hill might have made a move to separate himself from Alex Smith in the quarterback competition. Singletary, of course, is not going to name a "leader" until he names a starter at some point in the future."
He also posted this just before Hill was anounced the starter. Just after the Raiders preseason.
"Although it was not particularly impressive (for either QB), Hill remained on solid ground to win the starting job for the regular season."
Then he also reported when Hill was announced the starter:
"Hill has beaten out Alex Smith for the starting job, coach Mike Singletary announced just moments ago"
Yes he said Hill had BEATEN out A. Smith, not tied him.
AND Matt also reported:
"But Hill took began to take a sizable lead in the competition with his play Tuesday and Wednesday against the Raiders during the four joint practices, team sources said. "
Disclaimer: I do not think Hill is some amazing talent. I wish we had a better QB as our starter. Hill is average, a back up. I just think he is a stop gap until we can get a good-great QB. Smith is not the answer either, if he was a good or even great QB he would have had ZERO issues beating out a supposedly weaker QB for the starting role.
Smith is as weak or weaker than Hill.
Are you making the point that Alex Smith is the better PRACTICE quarterback? Then yeah, I can certainly agree with that!
...Nah - they really are ignoring you...
its like trying to respond to a "table".....
thanks mat for that very informative and constructive interview/criticsm. we hope 9er staffers will pick up something inthat regard and apply, correct and develop it positively for the team's benefit.
mat, if you're HC, would you bring in alex smith for a good try so to speak. we fans will never know if he developed all this time holding that expensive clipboard and during their practice rounds. Its a risk that we should take or else we will never know.
Terry, does it really depress you to hear 49er fans agitating for something better than mediocrity? Or is it that you have serious playoff hopes and high expectations that Jimmy Raye and Scott McCloughan can take the 49ers deep into the playoffs as early as next year?
The only real hope that the Yorks could ever make a serious championship run lies in fans agitating them to make the right decisions, like firing Raye and McCloughan before they either pass up one of the next great QBs or make a bust of him because there's no one on this staff capable of grooming a talented rookie QB.
Btw, your analogies about rats, darkness, and the Middle Ages just make you seem weird, not amusing or clever in any way.
Talk about jumping to conclusions. Exactly which practice reports are making you believe Michael Crabtree is the next Terrell Owens? I don't think anyone has written we chose the wrong Michael. I am simply expressing that Oher looked like he could be really good. Hopefully, Crabs is the playmaker we have been missing. We have seen Oher perform well in actual games but we haven't seen Crabs do anything against real competition yet. The 9ers won't know if they picked the right Michael for at least another 2.5 years. As you say, let's not jump to conclusions.
BTW... I was happy the 9ers got Crabtree but if they selected Oher I would have been just as happy. Crabs is far from a can't miss and the 0-line needed (needs) help.
No i wasn't - my point was on crabtree looking good so far in practice.....
....same was said about Brandon Jones, Bruce, Battle, Spurlock and Morgan looking good in camp...
So far nobody scares the defenses we face....
..this is why this guy called Houston has no credibility on this blog....
(thks to me of course for always keeping him in check)
How many times did Oher get flagged for a false start yesterday?.... 3 times
Allen had a sack, 7 tackles...
6 of them solo...
4 of them for a loss of yards...
2 QB hits.
I am not disputing Oher is good...i have watched all his games including preseason
Joe Staley did the same if not a better job against Allen and i didn't hear anyone yell we have a really good left tackle......
... i recall the blame was on the O-line...instead of S.Hill......talk bout hyprocrites...
I don't think that is jumping to conclusions at all. Based on his college game tapes and now the word coming out of 49ers land (ESPN Insider and PFT both had reports over the wekend that Crabtree has looked very good in practice) #15 is a play maker. Let's see what happens starting this weekend.
I can assure you a few Houston coaches and DB's spent last night and today watching Texas Tech game tapes. That alone is a GOOD thing!!!
I read that on Profootball Talk this morning as well. Thats why I have the Sunday NFL Ticket - So I don't have to rely on what someone else says to keep me informed. If you watched any of that game at all, you would know Oher struggled initially and then recovered. He stonewalled Allen on many plays over the 2nd half. He looked quick, strong, and aggressive. His technique was very very good - especially for a rookie. He played Allen MUCH better than Staley did and that's a fact. If Oher continues to develop he will be a pro bowl player. As for now, he showed more talent at his position in 1 game than our backup QB has shown at his position over several years.
As much as I dislike the fact he held out this long. (I feel like he robbed us of 5 games of stats) I really hope he is the play maker we all hoped he would be when we got excited we were able to draft him.
I don't think who is throwing to him will matter he isn't a stretch the field receiver he is a YAC receiver. That's why once Bruce is gone and Morgan matures a little more we could have a great one two WR combo.
Cmon Mike. Do you really think the Houston coaches are watching college game film? I'm sure they are game planning for Crabtree which is you're point but they aren't watching college game film. I'll be there for Crabs debut and I hope he goes 10 for 150 with a TD but that isn't likely. The stronger likelihood is that he'll struggle mightily in his rookie year and hopefully show something in his 2nd year. My point is still the same. We won't know for quite some time if we chose the right Michael.
"The only real hope that the Yorks could ever make a serious championship run lies in fans agitating them to make the right decisions..."
Yeah, because that works EVERY time; do everything the fans say. Why didn't I think of that? Statements like that shows why we're fans, and not working in any NFL front offices. Blogs are fun :)
..ok...i apologize (just this once) for trying to bait you into another one of your rants about oneniner...
....i don't disagree with you that Oher is good...better than a rookie.....i watch the ravens locally, thats why i have access to him..
BUT..
I still think Staley played Allen just as good as Oher played him...
but you guys will rather criticise our O-line against the vikings instead of QB play...
...i have a feeling Niner fans are tired of asking for a coaching change - even if we dont make the playoffs...
should we make a coaching change, if we don't make the playoffs?....
you have to consider the talent level of the coaches out there....
Sorry, Brekkon, but I am not wrong. All of your quotes are from Matt. My reference is what Raye himself said. No offense to Matt's views, but Raye is the OC. Raye said Smith did not score a knockout, which is what he had to do to unseat the "champion." He never once said Hill beat out Smith by outplaying him.
Staley's drop step in pass protection is pretty good but he's very slow compared to Oher. That's the big difference.
Hill has been poor. His QB rating is 80.7 which puts him at 24th in the league. He's also 24th in the league in yds/game with 179.6. His completion percentage is 29th in the league at 56.3%. He's still better than Smith though.
Matt, thanks for the Cosell interview, he's one I have grown to respect, appears to tell it as he sees it, not concerned with going against the grain.
...ok....see - i knew you couldn't resist hanging urself..
i like how you stated facts at first them finished up with an opinion disguised as fact
"He's still better than Smith though. " - in your opinion which you also have to state.... "I havn't seen A.smith play a regular season since 2007"
not sure how that's hanging myself.
i stated facts that show Hill has been poor. my opinion is that he's still better than Smith. That opinion is based on watching Smith for over 2 years and during this past pre-season. It's also based on the fact that Smith hasn't been in a game since 2007 which is a very long time to sit out and try to make a comeback.
Skeebers, can you supply the quote or link to that info?
I don't recall what you are saying, ever being said by Raye.
Singletary did quote that Hill BEAT Smith as mentioned above. Matt was just reporting what Singletary said.
What I saw that yes, as Matt reported, was"TEAM SOURCES SAID"
"But Hill took began to take a sizable lead in the competition with his play Tuesday and Wednesday against the Raiders during the four joint practices, team sources said. "
I am sure Matt is not in the habit of reporting only the things he thinks and not having sources.
My point however is this, are we really calling for a QB change to a guy who couldn't perform the knock out punch as you mention to push himself over Hill in the competition?
If he couldn't perform that knockout punch in his start against the raiders in preseason then what can we expect him to do against the good teams in the NFL.
The team gave him a free pass, a cake walk of a game in the raiders for him to take command and he failed miserably.
Skeebers, can you supply the quote or link to that info?
I don't recall what you are saying, ever being said by Raye.
Singletary did quote that Hill BEAT Smith as mentioned above. Matt was just reporting what Singletary said.
What I saw that yes, as Matt reported, was"TEAM SOURCES SAID"
"But Hill took began to take a sizable lead in the competition with his play Tuesday and Wednesday against the Raiders during the four joint practices, team sources said. "
I am sure Matt is not in the habit of reporting only the things he thinks and not having sources.
My point however is this, are we really calling for a QB change to a guy who couldn't perform the knock out punch as you mention to push himself over Hill in the competition?
If he couldn't perform that knockout punch in his start against the raiders in preseason then what can we expect him to do against the good teams in the NFL.
The team gave him a free pass, a cake walk of a game in the raiders for him to take command and he failed miserably.
I would be ecstatic if (after not making the playoffs or squeeking in at 9-7) they replaced Singletary with Shanahan and brought back the West Coast Offense.
49ER NATION DEMANDS THE WEST COAST OFFENSE!
49er nation is not nearly as laid back as local SF 49er fans. Our love for the team is predicated on style of play as well as winning (not that we're ever going anywhere with Raye).
"I know you haven't seen him play in two years, but is there where Alex Smith, because of his arm strength and the better physical tools, might be the better option at quarterback?
Cosell: "Well, I don't think Alex Smith has particularly good physical tools. Certainly, we know Shaun Hill has an average to below-average NFL arm. You're right, we haven't seen Alex Smith throw in two years, but the last time we did see him throw and even when he came out (of college), I'd say Alex Smith's arm strength was slightly better than average - nothing more. I'm always leery - I know he's a smart kid - but I don't know how much he's learned. I'm not there. When you play in the Urban Meyer offense, and I can tell you for a fact, that when Alex Smith went through his board work for teams coming out of the draft that he had zero clue about NFL route combinations, which is not surprising. Because in Urban Meyer's offense, nobody does. I'm not a big Alex Smith guy. I think he has limited skills and I think he's got limited understanding."
HHMMM!!! I WONDER WHAT MR COSELL HAS TO SAY AFTER THIS GAME TODAY