good stuff... I'm glad we got to hear his side after all the speculation on ours and the media's perception of the man. I may not agree with his philosophy, but I do understand the point he is trying to make.

If he went 360 degrees away from that, wouldn't he be at the same spot? Just kidding. I think VD will have an even better game against the Rams this week than last week, which would be awesome. I think Coffee will play ok. I also think that the offense will be opened up more before the end of the season. My guess is that they're keeping their cards very close to their chest for now to throw off the opposing defenses gameplans.

You gotta agree with him...

Why establish a style of play that's been working just to abandon it?!? It's been pretty even so far and I think it'll continue to be that way.

Translation:

1) Hill's succcess has been because Niners have bene stubborn with the run.

2) Throwing the ball in a close game at the end of games is not Niners' first option since it stops the clock for the other team on change of possession.

3) Niners will throw the ball eventually on those downs and key situations once more trust is established with Hill's consistency.

My Like/Dislike:

1) Considering where the team was in previous seasons and where they are now, I'm more than happy to see it for the end results: WINS.

2) There will be times like last Sunday when a less conservative approach would have led to a win.

3) Real question: will they be less predictable as the season goes on late in games with the lead, i.e. have a killer instinct?

..so bottomline..hill sucks...

his so called success is based on a system......without the system he would worse than what we see on sunday.....

i knew Coach Raye knew what he was doing....

Which confirms what i said before - he does not believe S.Hill can carry this team on his own....

thks coach for making my point.

NEVER FAILS....

its amusing

Oneniner are you saying the coaching also sucks because they are the ones that chose Hill? Wouldn't it make sense that if they thought Smith was the better candidate they would be starting him. Smith may be able to throw the long ball, but it's a waste if it is not accurate.

like clockwork...

I'm going to the game and I have been thinking about making some signs

The idea right now is to put an image of a crab + an image of a tree = an image of a big pile of poo

I call BS! I want to give Raye the benefit of the doubt but what he says in this article is completely contradictory. He sounds like he's full of sh*t. Hill's passing proficiency in the 4th quarter is due to the fact they run the ball into 8 man fronts for the 1st 3 quarters. Are you kidding me? They are doing this to maintain time of possession and keep the other teams offense off the field? Aren't the 9ers leading the league in 3 and Outs? On the other hand he says, the defense will dictate whether they throw or not? A "matter of visual interpretation"? Holy Crap!!! This is our offensive coordinator? OMFG! This is disturbing.

Any other ideas?

"If we don't win, I know the number to a really good Brazilian cleaner."

Oneniner,

I just read the last article comments and you said that Mrob is your main man...

your joking right... MRob is nothing more than a ST player and I cringe every time he touches the field on offense

I'll be at the game and all the rest of the home games. Haven't seen too many posters. Are they allowing entrance. I know these guys who used to sit in front of me put bags on their heads when the niners were doing terrible and they were forced to take them off.

If I were you 53niners I would do something in regards to Crabtree missing out on playing. Who gives a crap that he's not here. We are winning without him. I really think it's more his agent holding him back. He probably wants to play. This whole thing has gotten far out of hand. I am still waiting for Jed to meet with Crabtree and Eugene Parker.....

I got it "Who gives a CRAB!"

Singletary and his old school "Let's run into 8-10 man fronts and let the defense win the game" is going to back fire on him. Raye and him are stubborn old timers. That stubborness has already cost us one game and almost cost us the Arizona game. Just watch, it will cost us two to three more games.

I know. I watched what Raye did in KC. Three plays and a cloud of dust we called it.

I really want to comment on what you said, but I think it would be wise not to...

P.S. can I get his number?

zzzzzzzzzzzz!!! Everything about Raye is boring!

Oneniner - S.Hill was successful in 3 very different systems though; Hostler, Martz and Raye.

What I don't like about the way Coach Raye is going about this is that the offensive philosophy comes off as passive. Maybe as the system develops, and the players grow into it, that approach is alright for now. But that can't be the theme for the future. They've GOT to become aggressive and learn to exploit defenses.

But maybe I'm talking out of turn cuz I'm more of a defensive guy anyway.

As long as we win I'll be happy....

But it would be nice to see a Pass Play go for over 50 yrds!!!

i can't believe shaun hill is still starting! what gives? alex smith is waiting in the wings and he's about to bust out and let everyone know that he can get the job done. a. smith has the stronger arm, he's younger, has the faster legs, best crooked smile, a great 5-day-old shadow, AND has more fan support than any niner since steve young! so is singletary an idiot?? time to start the right man and get us winning by a bigger margin!

jimmy raye is a genius! i think after this season, some teams out there will offer him a head coaching position. his philosophy of an offense is so unique and fresh that other teams will be pounding on the 49er's door for him!

but right now, we need to get a petition and make the niners start - ALEX SMITH and MARK ROMAN! scott mcclouhan will probably get recognition for best GM after this season. i heard that crabtree for sure sign if smith starts.

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to have you cleaned.

I jest. I was just saying that'd be a cool sign to see at a Niners game.

It's like a prevent defense - only thing it does is prevents you from winning. Raye plays not to lose so long term he will.

I know in all the sports I play and have played (doesn't include football), that playing not to lose will only get you so far. And that "so far" is not the top.

I can only hope this is a starting the season plan that will evolve. But with Jimmy Raye that's not much of a hope.

"But Shaun Hill is completing passes at a 76.7-percent rate in the fourth quarter."

MM...lol, all attempts to inject logic into a Jimmy Raye conversation go out the window. This is reminiscent of the Coors Light commercials with the guys interviewing the coaches and cutting in clips from the coaches postgame interviews as the coaches response. "But coach?"

Yeah, forget your dumbass signs and concentrate on supporting your team.

As much as I want to believe in Raye's abilities. I just dont see it...

I have to agree with Houston 9er. His responses make no sense.

The defense dictates the play but then MM asks then why do we run into stacked lines.

Then he says Shaun has a 76% comp rate because they are so committed to the run? Shaun has a high comp rate in the 13 games he has started only 3 of those came in this system. 10 of those games were before the run only mentality.

I am so torn with this guy I like his ratio of runs to passes but he doesn't mix them much. Each series is either all runs or mostly passes.

sometimes it's difficult to know when sarcasm is employed. This is a joke, right?

J.R.
A winning team's offense dictates to the opposing teams defense!

Always.

Here's a stat I just found: On first-and-10, the 49ers have called run plays 58-percent of the the time. Maybe that's what Jimmy Raye meant in training camp when he said the 49ers' balances, run to pass, to be 60/40. --Matt M.

visusal interpretation???????
What the heck is he looking at? beside the two Gore td runs, i just see our RBs running into a wall in the Cardinal and viking games.

Don't pass the ball because you want to keep your defense fresh??? how about making 1st downs and keeping your defense fresh.

I thought originally coach raye needs some new glasses, now I think he need a new brain.

Matt...

When do you think the time will come for Raye to open it up a bit? I've liked what we've seen so far but you have to have some element of surprise wouldn't you agree?

i can't believe NOT ONE person here see what oneniner and i see. for example - look at the raiders. the raiders are such wimps and wusses that they don't have enough guts to pull ja-bust-cus russell because he's their no. 1 qb. the guy is bringing the team down! just because the coaches think he's the go-to guy, doesn't mean their right, right?? same goes for shaun hill. just because he's doing a little better than russell, and he barely got us to 2-1, doesn't mean he should be starting! the coaches don't know what their talking about! oneniner and i both know that ALEX SMITH is ready to start. hell, he can start for the patriots, colts, AND jets! we all know that singletary is keeping smith down, and that's a shame, because once hill goes down, and smith comes in, singletary will beat his own ass that he didn't see what oneniner and i both saw! that smith can lead the niners to the SUPERBOWL! i just read somewhere that crabtree said that during OTA, he thought "alex probably the best qb that ever threw a ball to me." c'mon, how can you not think smith is THE qb?? crabtree WILL sign once smith is the no. 1 qb. SINGLETARY, YORK, MCCLOUGHAN - can that be any easier to get crabtree on the team?? enough said.

i love it man....

go niners...

The Rams are really hurting this week...

Looks like Boller is in for sure... but both OT will probably be out along with their CB Bartell.

Never underestimate a team.... but man they're hurting pretty bad.

So the fact that the defense has eight man up front dictates that you run the ball? I guess if they put nine men near the line of scrimmage, that would dictate that they throw the ball?

We desperately want to believe that Raye has a brain. But it's getting harder and harder.

While talking about and manipulating all the numbers. Let us focus in on our success or lack of it on third down. Matt would you agree the coaches and Hill have been getting a free ride on this? If the team converted on an acceptable amount of third downs the game could have been in hand before the final drive. Also if the team activates their best two deep receivers how will Hill get the ball to them? In preseason it was Smith who had more success on the deep routes. Before last weeks game I wrote it would be up to the defense and special teams if the 49ers were to win which is what it came down to. Hill is likeable and a good number two quarterback but a long shot to ever take the team to the promised land.

The defense will dictate if the 49ers throw, but won't dictate when they run the ball?

If St. Louis puts 11 in the box, will he still run it? In an I formation no less?

Jimmy Raye scares me

But I think he may be better than Jim Hostler.

Exactly what I was thinking too.

I think this is the exact opposite of West Coast offense which exploits the match-up problems.

If thats the plan, boy the season will be very very very long :(

look at his philosophy..."if the defense has eight man up front dictates that you run the ball." jimmy raye is looking at it as billiard! jimmy raye is such a great billiard player, he knows all you need is one solid cue ball to knock ALL 8 balls out! thus causing a hole for the running back to constantly run up the gut for a td! and if need be, the rb can "bank" off the edges to go around defensive players. freaking brilliant! jimmy raye is the god of offensive strategy! oneniner and i both believe that jimmy raye's playcalling is on par with bill walsh's original WCO type of thinking. even though it's a bit washed out right now, but you'll all see when everything comes out! it'll be even better when ALEX SMITH finally get back his starting role! shoot, i would trade shaun hill and get us a good offensive tackle. btw, is kwame harris still around?

The bashers are out in force. I guess 49erthor's message was not a joke. But really, a comparison to the Traitor's? You have to know that if Cable could do what he wanted as opposed to what Al was telling him he could and could not do that Garcia would have been their QB in the season opener. We've won with Hill, not with Smith. Do you really care what came out of Crabtree's mouth? Do you feel it credible? Stampede, what's the line? Child Please.

Or is this really oneniner in disguise and I've just been sucked in?

HAHA! Yes sir! Gots to drop a child please on some of these comments.

...and thank you SC Rick for deciphering my message. whew...man, it's hard to be like oneniner. you get pretty exhausted ranting from the opposite end. :)

Wow! Well, oneniner will be happy. Raye says "he(Hill) has been able to do that because we've run the ball against eight-man fronts. That's the reason that his completion percentage is what it is." Raye says Hill would suck if he didn't call so many runs between the tackles.

MM: I'm thinking you could easily refute this. Didn't the 49ers under Nolan two years ago attempt to run the ball a lot? I wonder what Alex Smith's 4th quarter completion percentage was. This might give us something to compare.

Is there an advantage to not revealing our passing plays too much to the other team until we really need them? Does doing this give us an advantage since they will be less ready for them? Will this prevent them from doing halftime adjustments against our mystic passing attack and thus making it more effective?

As crazy as what he said seems to be, it may just be crazy like a fox! At least that is what me and oneniner believe.

Thoughts?

To JR: Child please!

Ok, chaulk one up to you. You got me

Sheesh what does the defense have to do to prompt more passing stack 10 in the box?

I think more passing keeps the defenses honest and OFF the LOS allowing more effective running.

Also, where's the screens, the draws, the swing passes when they're blitzing or stacking against the run? Once the back gets past the LB's he's almost certain to see daylight running downhill.

Dude? You need to take a couple more prozac right now! You better put your Smith jersey in moth balls! Next year old Alex we'll be running to the right sideline and throwing the ball out of bounds, and throwing over the heads of wide open receivers for some other team! But he'll look good as you say standing on the other teams sideline! That's if he isn't on the practice squad

lol, I think you're right, he is better than Hostler. BUt, that's not really saying much, unfortunately. I have to agree with houston49er that Raye's answer seemed like gibberish.

Maybe that's his approach. Make so little sense in media interviews that opposing coaches are left completely scratching their heads.

As for keeping the other team on the field longer, how much time do three 3 & outs in a row really take up? It really does seem to me that the best way to keep the defense on the field is to have, wait for it, ...sustained drives! That means first downs, Jimmy.

Yes, we are all stoked about WINS, but the things is, this style is not sustainable. The pressure on the D, the amount of time on the field, more opporunities for injuries, it all adds up, and will eventually catch up, IMO.

I sincerely hope that Raye can mix it up, and get the opposing D in a position where they cannot guess what is coming. Shouldn't that be a goal for any good OC?

+1

Of course, we could compare Hill's 4th qtr quarterback rating to the rest of the league - as Matt has already done. Hill is in the top 5 and there are quite a few running teams in the NFL. So, obviously Hill's qb rating is better than qb's on many other running teams. Hmmm, something tells me that this is the same logic that led Raye to call so many line plunges in the 4th of the Vikings game.

They lost the last game so no, it doesn't make them crazy like a fox, it makes them dumb like an ox.

Walsh used to pass to set up the run. The Steelers run to set up the pass.

Raye runs to set up the punt.

CHild Please!

Matt,

Raye's comments on the offense sound alot like Nolan defending his big nickel or big sub package last year that he thought was so effective. Logic doesn't seem to apply. When your rushing offense is averaging 2.26 yds/carry for 78 attempts(subtracting Gore's two long runs), it just seems like throwing a little more often might help the rushing game. He and Nolan appear to have gone to the same Coach-speak school.

Translation: We are playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

Interesting, It seems Raye does not trust the O line to pass protect adequately. This may be the "trust " they talk about,

Mike Nolan's defense #1 in the league

The doubters on here say these coaches (Raye & Sing) can't coach or don't know what they are doing when it is as plain as day to see it is the exact opposite. Why run a spread offense or west coast offense when we don't have the players to do that? They are coaching the strengths of the players we have. We have a great running back in Gore and behind him (no homo) is Coffee. Vernon is doing what he should have done a long time ago. A mediocre core of receivers, that are still learning and will get better in time. Add a O Line that is still suspect at this time with an unproven but savvy winning "career backup" qb. Then you mix that with a top notch defense which I credit Nolan for setting the foundation for what soon looks like it could be a great defense. So with that you coach the strengths of your team. And that is what the coaches are doing. With every game/practice/experience they are getting better. They are growing confidence and getting better. The better they can play the more it will open up the play book. At 2-1 soooo close to being 3-0. I credit that to the coaches. Mike Martz wanted to run an offense we did not have the personal for and look what happened JTO would have been dead by the end of the season the way he was getting smacked around. And if we try that right now the same thing will happen to Hill/Smith/Davis. If these coaches are so bad why are the 9ers looker better than they have in YEARS! On the sports shows espn/nf net/fox sports we were the other teams highlight reel. Now we are the highlight reel. I'm not sure what world some of you cats on here live in? Either your stuck in the glory days and cant get your head out the past, or your spitting out snapple facts or your a coaching guru all of sudden. Call it what you want but the FACT is that THE 49ERS ARE BACK AND only getting BETTER!!!!

His defense's were always good, his offense's never were.

Mike Nolan's defense #1 in the league

I'll admit I'm almost in shock but it's still against the Begals(ok), Browns(bad) and Raiders(bad) so let's wait and see when they play some better teams. It also helps to have Dawkins at safety and a Dumervil pass rush.

Question: Who's done a much better job getting the Niner's D playing a whole lot better with the same personel: Nolan or Manusky?????? No contest!! !!!!!!! Maybe he's just not worried as much about which suit to wear in Denver.

I think Darren is back at 49erthor. More importantly....can anyone really understand what Raye is saying? The defense dictates...but with 8 in the box we still can run? Huh? I thought the conventional wisdom was...8 in box = pass somewhere to burn the defesne? I am not impressed. I still don't like this guy. Run him and give me Tom Rathman as the OC. Old #44 appears the be a student of the game a great RB's coach and I bet he learned a few things about play calling from a guy named Bill and another dude named Joe. Raye just sounds like a tired old hack and as others have said a dude trying not to lose.

Just to remind you once again...
after 3 games the Niners have run the ball 80 times and have passed the ball 83 times. Very well balanced and not at all a run all the time offense.
I have a few disagreements with some of Raye's calls at critical times,but he has done a pretty fine job so far. I hope that he and the players improve as the NEW offense goes along. Remember, newly installed offenses usually don't hit their stride until AT LEAST mid seson . So,perhaps they are a bit AHEAD of schedule? I hope as the offense progresses that Raye also progresses and opens it up a bit more . I bet if the O line was giving Hill any time at all,that raye would already be opening up the passing game.
But remember...80 runs and 83 passes !!! Not exactly run left,run middle and run right,punt ! Give them a chance,hopefullt the best is yet to come. If it gets to the end of the year with no improvement in imagination etc,then we should worry.

Top-Cat, dig a little deeper with your numbers, they only have a 27% conversion rate on 3rd down and they have 25 1st downs passing and only 12 by rushing. Not good for a "power running team". Like I said earlier, they're only averaging 2.26 yds on 78 of those 80 rushes. Obviously you need atleast a 2.5 yd avg to get a first down on 4 consecutive runs. Raye needs to do something diffferent than calling a run up the middle on 2nd down most of the time. I wish I had that stat: what percentage of the time does he call that play on 2nd down.

Also that 2.26 yd /rush won't cut it in the 4th quarter when you want to run some time off the clock, especially when you've been twice as successful getting 1st downs by passing. His explanations sound just like Nolan-speak.

It's true, it's not 60/40 but the playcalling mix hasn't been great. One drive will be like 14 pass plays, then we'll have 3 runs and punt, 3 runs and punt, 2 runs, incomplete pass, punt. They have way too many 3 and outs, this team reminds me so much of the 2007 team except a better head coach and a slightly improved QB.... I hope they don't throw away more sure victories by refusing to change it up and just run into a brick wall over and over.... They darn near lost the Arizona game that way cause they could run the clock out...If they make the playoffs, those opponents will be too good to be beaten by predictable playcalling

Compare Denver's defense last year to this and it's no contest. So far this year Nolan's done the superior job.

But you cling to your hate. It'll keep you warm at night.

It's not hate it's just a fact. Manusky's done a far superior job with the Niner D with Nolan's influence gone. If you can't admit that then you're not a real Niner fan. I could care less about what Denver does this year. If Nolan does well, good for him, I'll give him his props. He did some good things here, but he messed other things up big time. It's about performance nothing personal. You guys need to get over your man crushes, it's all about how well you perform your job in this business. This is a much better team with Singletary in charge T or F. (T !!!!!!!!!!!)

We are just playing the percentages. Running the ball wins games in the regular season...see M. Schottenheimer. We might have to be a little more prolific with the passing game to go deep into the playoffs though. Raye understands what it will take for this particular group of players to be successful and that is control the clock, keep our D fresh, and run run run. It came back to bite us against the Vikes but the percentages of teams who win with T.O.P. and turnover differential in thier favor far outnumber the teams who toss it around with no discipline.

Memo to Raye: We'll see about that.

Sando brought up an ESPN stat that Coffee is leading the league with 40% (14 of 35) of his rushing attempts for zero or lost yardage. Gore (11 of 39, or 28.2%) is also in the top 10.

Over at SI.com, Coffee is listed with 9 "stuffs" (TFLs), amounting to 25.7% of his runs. Gore himself already has 6 "stuffs" or 15.4%, as compared to 12 (0.09%) under McCarthy, 25 (0.08%) under TNorv, 19 (0.07%) under Hostler, & 24 (0.1%) under Martz.

11 of 39

You know they did start off the Viking game with two passes, and the overall mix is decent. But maybe there is just too much focus on run vs pass.
There are a lot of variables in a successful offense. You can keep defenses off balance with either a run or pass, but it seems the runs are well defensed. And usually on even a pass the receiver is well covered so we're definitely not fooling people.
I think we'll have to see if over the first half they can come up with a game plan that's well designed. My worry is that with limited creativity each game becomes a clearer picture of how to defend our offense.

What's at the heart of this conversation is our ability to break those fronts.

It's on the OL, it's on the offensive backfield etc. He's gonna throw eventually. He certainly isn't going to show his hand in the media, it's all about improving the outcome week to week.

I agreed with the strategy in MN only because of the T.O.'s MN had at their disposal. You trade time for them late, especially with a lead. Our OL needs to man up on those fronts and MN had arguably the best line to do it against. We juggled players, we pounded our heads against the wall and nearly pulled it off. Coffee held onto the ball, that in itself was fantastic to see.

Getting 'Favre'd' is nothing new for us, it's unfortunate for now, at least it's not a Playoff loss.

The mix isn't as important as how effective either the pass or run are. If you're a better running team, then run more and vice versa.

I agree completely with your last paragraph. My concern with Raye is he appears to be stubbornly sticking to a very ineffective running game because that's what he wants the offense to be. Coordinators and coaches are supposed to be putting their players in the best position to succeed. Right now, I don't think Raye is.

His offense is almost the exact opposite of Martz's, but the main way they they are very similar is the opposing D knows what they're going to do most of the time. However Martz has alot more variations in his to counter that. Raye doesn't seem to.

Wow! Thanks for posting. Those stats really tell the story. My interpretation is that these stats show the 9ers offense is extremely predictable. I wonder if there are any sites that show stats on o-lineman who are responsible for allowing a Tackle For Loss. I haven't really watched the o-line play in detail but it seems to me Chilo makes 1 good block out of 5. He is slow to his assignments which allows penetration quite a bit. So far I'm not a fan.

Unbelievable! Is this guy listening to himself? He's talking about tiring the defense? What about all those 3 & outs he's called? It's not that, but rather passing the ball for a first down that will tire out our defense. Wait . . what?

Sounds frickin dumber than the argument my friend had with his Dad when he was trying to get to permission to go to a Grateful Dead concert when we were 14:

"But Dad, they're like Beatles music."
Dad: "For your information Puff the Magic Dragon was a song about a joint of marijuana."
"But Dad, they're called The Grateful Dead because they're grateful that they're dying so they could go to heaven."
Dad: "Conversation over."
First thought that came to my head was "Oh my god, did you just say that out loud?"

It's the same thing. You believe in what you're doing so much and you want to succeed so badly, that you'll say the dumbest things to justify what you're doing.

Raye, wake up. While I am a HUGE fan of "5 yards in a cloud dust" football (no joke, I love it). Hovever, even my 10 year old daughter knows that when they've got an 8 man front with two guys bigger than a Yugo in the middle you might want to use a little play action to move the ball and maintain possession.

It's not always blameable on the OLs, although Raye is now drawing comparisons by saying he had interior Pro Bowlers (Grunhard, Szott, Will Shields) at KC to block for those inside runs.

The TFLs are as much a testament that opponents can stack the box & key the run, without fear of being burned deep by the 9er WRs. So it goes back to Raye's playcalling, which is inexplicable to me cuz Derrick Alexander, Joe Horn, Andre Rison & Kevin Lockett all averaged high ypc's when complementing Tony Gonzalez.

Dude I completely agree with you. It's a numbers game. The defense knows the 9ers are running so they put more defenders in the box than the 9ers can block. Add to that the fact that some of our lineman are missing their assignments and the problem is compounded. I absolutely love watching our defense play with energy and passion. The offense is exactly opposite. Watching the lifeless running game pound the rock up the middle for a loss play after play is torturous. Sounds like it fits Raye's personality though.