The 49ers' run game is about quantity, not quality, 49ers offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye said. That's why he said it's difficult to draw any conclusions about the run game from the 49ers' loss to the Colts. In that game, Frank Gore had just 13 rushing attempts.
I asked Raye today about the spread offense and the fact that the run game has not been consistently successful this season. The 49ers are not going to become a "spread" team. But Raye said there might be more of those elements added to the team's offense as the season progresses.
Here are some of Raye's answers to my questions about the state of the 49ers' offense:
Q: With the personnel you have and what you spent time in the offseason working on, are you comfortable going with the spread offense and shotgun for large portions of the game?
Raye: "No. No. Not at all. We're the same bunch that four weeks ago we were talking about how we're going to play. We haven't changed that. If that was in fact true and we were going to take this deal and become a shotgun, wide-open and throw the ball 48 or 52 times a game, then we'd have to do an awful lot of changing. We can mix that, which we have and intend to do, but as a steady diet . . . I think the confusion is that people are looking at the extremities of what they perceive to be the talent at the extremities and making a judgment that is not founded or grounded at all. And the quarterback has played six quarters today, and people are now starting to refer to his history in that offense in college, which is five years removed. Right now I don't delight in that prospect. Going forward, if it manifests itself and is something that will help us, we'll gravitate toward that. As of now, the answer to that question is no."
Q: You talked about four weeks ago. Four weeks ago, Alex Smith wasn't the quarterback and Michael Crabtree wasn't here. Do you lean more that way than you did four weeks ago? I'm not saying rip up the playbook, but use more of those elements?
Raye: "Yes, we would think of that a little more. It's difficult because we're still, in certain things, trying to get No. 15 (Crabtree) to line up in the right place. There are more elements to it than just the physical body of the people we have. So there's a lot of things that go into that before we say, 'We're going to switch gears and go in another direction.' We can gravitate toward that and make due because of what we see out of his natural ability, but the nuances and the fine-tuning still takes some time. And then the exposure of the offensive line . . . "
Q: Exposure of the offensive line?
Raye: "If you do that it takes away the threat of the run. So if you're trying to block Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis on every down and the left tackle is hurt on the first play, you got to be . . . you kind of have to re-evaluate what you're trying to do."
Q: Is the offense running how you want it to right now?
Raye: "In some areas, yes. Basically, offensively, what we'd like to do as we strive to achieve balance, is to be able to score points. And we haven't done that in abundance. We've been efficient in certain areas. We do a very good job with the stuff we have in the red zone. We haven't had the consistency in the run or the pass that we'd like, but the pass part of it appeared to be some better with the change and the addition of the people that we have. So I guess the answer is yes and no.
Q: The pass game is coming along, so what do you think is the main area of the run game that just has not clicked like you thought it would?
Raye: "The efficiency of 4-yard runs on first down. That coupled with the fact that we get an overloaded box. When we're in a 21 personnel group (two backs, one tight end, two receivers), we see more gap-controled eight-man add-on fronts than we'd normally like to see. When we started back, we were more interested in quantity of run than quality because we were trying to control the clock and put it together to the point that we had a chance to win the game in the fourth quarter. And somewhere along the way, in the last 2 ½ weeks, that's kind of gotten lost."
Q: Why haven't you been getting those 4 yards on first down?
Raye: "Part of it . . . if you want to go back chronologically . . . part of it is we changed the right side of the line. We lost the back (Gore) for a while. There are all kinds of symptoms to why it is. The basic answer is the lack of continuity and familiarity approach with people are comfortable playing with each other together more than anything else."
Q: So are the pieces still there?
Raye: "It's not the same pieces, but we have people in place. We lost Tony Pashos and a week later we lost Joe Staley. There are some differences. I'm not alibi-ing or making excuses but it is different than the way we started in
* * *
Raye is sounding more like a Literature professor than an OC.
Still seems like he is making excuses about continuity and excution rather than play calling. Football is a team sports where coaching plays a major part. He is culpable that his play calling is of poor quality due to his stubborness and/or tailoring his offence to his players. I hope that he modifies this quickly or else we may witness another lost season.
I Hope Norv Turner gets fired so bad,
Nice article Matt,
It reminds me of how vital the O-line is in the grand scheme of things for the 49er offense. Obviously losing Pashos & Staley is going to be a major blow to the offense in relation to cohesiveness. And that's what the common simpleton 49 fan doesn't understand, they just want to blame it on Raye because he's an easy target. It's alot more complicated than that as well the mind set of "the 49ers should use more of the spread offense" when clearly they didn't anticipate using that as much when they started wayyy back in mini-camp. For the simpletons maybe you should think about that before you post what seems to YOU as an abvious flaw.
I understand what Raye is saying with the loss of key personnel and change of QB that its hard to just switch gears to a new offensive philosophy. However, my question to the Faithful is this, at what point do we look at SING's coaching philosohy and tactical insight and say, he's not getting it done? He keeps saying we are getting better, we will go to the playoffs, we will be there. I have watched every snap and winning is all that matters. Sure they are getting better but the bottom line is wins and before you know it, you end the season looking back at some games you should have won, like Minnesota, Houston, Indy. I'm just saying time is running out for cliche statements like we are getting better. Its week 8.
I think Jimmy Raye is just being real. He is acknowledging reality. The OLine play was very inconsistent to start the season - poor RT play followed by a rotation and poor guard play, the loss of Gore, the addition of Crabtree, the change of QBs and now the loss of Staley. Flat out, there has been no consistency in personnel. I remember everyone banging on hybrid Nolan and no identity. Remember that. The offense will evolve as the year progresses if we can get some stability in the OLine play. I expect the Niners to pass more early to enable them to run more consistently.
I have been a real critic of the McNolan regime. I like Coach Sing and Coach Raye and think they are doing a good job with what they have. Our O Line is sub-par and that is the bottom line. Sims is a cast off from the Raider's poor O line. What do we expect Raye to do?
If there is anyone to blame it is the GM. McNolan put that line together over the last four years. We don't have one All-Pro and until we actually improve that line Coach Raye will be limited. He isn't unimaginative, he is limited by his personnel.
I would have taken Crabtree also, but trading our second pick may not have been the smartest move when we need a tackle desperately. In retrospect it would have been smarter at that time to trade next year's number one & the number two and move up. But that is water under the bridge and with hindsight.
The draft won't solve all our problems, but next year's two number ones must be spot on and we must get a top tier tackle and tell Scott a guard is worth the money if he is good.
I'm not alibi-ing or making excuses but it is different than the way we started in Arizona seven weeks ago.
I dont want to say I craped my pance, but I'm going to need a new pair cause these are full of poop.
I am trying desperately to be nice here, but his comments again leave saying, huh?
...and throw the ball 48 or 52 times a game,...
Who on earth is advocating this? Is it really so either/or?
... is to be able to score points.
We do a very good job with the stuff we have in the red zone.
True about the red zone. But your visits there are too rare to help much in that point scoring.
we see more gap-controled eight-man add-on fronts than we'd normally like to see.
Than you would like to see? Like has nothing to do with it. Defenses are trying to out think you, Jimmy. They don't want you to see what you like to see.
we were trying to control the clock and put it together to the point that we had a chance to win the game in the fourth quarter.
How about trying to start the winning in the first quarter?
but it is different than the way we started in Arizona seven weeks ago.
No it isn't. The running game was atrocious and ineffective in that game.
Raye comes off as cluelessly conservative to me. Trying to put a square peg in a round hole. But on the plus side, I think he is better at OC than he is at giving interviews. Not very inspiring, at all.
No wonder Raye has never been the OC of a championship or playoff team! Can we please try and open it up, just a little bit.
"The 49ers' run game is about quantity, not quality, 49ers offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye said."
Did I read that correctly? I think I'm missing something here, because I can't for the life of me comprehend how that makes a lick of sense.
I think Singeltary needs to relieze that this isn't Smashmout Football Era the 80's and early 90's were!
I think maybe the game has passed good o'l Jimmy Raye by, While he might be a very wise and knowaledgable, He just doesnt know how to design a counter for the speed of todays defenses.
we see more gap-controled eight-man add-on fronts than we'd normally like to see.
Than you would like to see? Like has nothing to do with it. Defenses are trying to out think you, Jimmy. They don't want you to see what you like to see.
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LOL
" Basically, offensively, what we'd like to do as we strive to achieve balance, is to be able to score points."
Brilliant; I wonder why nobody else has thought of that?
We lost Tony Pashos and a week later we lost Joe Staley! He makes like Pashos had been starting all season. He only started one game so losing him is no excuse for poor play. I think they better open it up on offense to help the run game or Raye will be looking for a new job in 2010.
why was Chris Patrick put ahead of Alex Boone? How is Boone progressing? On another note, Crabtree has already caught a number of passes. Did Jason Hill have as many chances to catch as many passes as Crabtree? I tend to think Hill was not given the opportunities Crabtree has been given. Why don't we see more hill in there? Was it the QB's lack of abilities?
Good job by Raye of speaking eloquently (a football rarity) and still saying absolutely nothing, just like every single coach in the league tries to do when fulfilling the obligation of speaking with reporters who need to supply some fodder for clueless posters to yap about. And the posters, with a few exceptions, are now performing their tasks of ridiculing every word and sentence as though they are clever little fellows. Raye is the most eloquent guy on the Niners since Walsh. But Seifert was hands down the best interview guy. A witty and perhaps too forthright guy. Boiling down Raye's statements, I believe they amount to "What are you, brain dead? Our line has stunk and is injured, too. Have you not been watching the games? And now you want to install a whole new offense in three days of practice with a brand new QB, WR, Lt, and RT? Sheesh."
Man, quantity over quality is almost never good. In fact it's never good when your endgame is a good product.. A lot of things that comes out of Raye's mouth are headscratchers.
Hill hasn't been givem the oppritunity Crabtree has been givin, cause he doesn't have a 10th of the talent Crabtree, Coming into the league and having of 10 catches and 125 yeards three weeks after signing your contract isn't a fluke. Jason Hill needs to stop whining and start bustin his butt in practice.
What a pathetic interview, full of excuses.
Overloaded box, 8-man fronts, Gore getting hurt, having to play from behind. These were all foreseeable occurences over the course of a season, especially in light of his run-committed philosophy. They aren't valid excuses for the offense's ineptitude.
We set out to be a running team this season, and except for 3 plays, we've failed. We lack the personnel to succeed with this type of offense (we would need better, meaner linemen, and more depth). This is likely to be an ongoing problem because the front office hasn't assessed OL talent well at all. We should stick with what's been working, and try to get the ball to Frank more in the passing game.
Also, Raye's run scheme is very unimaginative. We run that same counter or zone-block dive over and over to no effect. What about pulling Chilo in front of Gore? Gore reads and cuts so well off Chilo's blocks (when Chilo decides to block). What about those stretch plays Indy uses? What about powers and sweeps? What about the Taser?
We don't have the folks to play the type of offense we want to play, but for the first time in a long time we got the folks to run a successful offense. I think we gotta be willing to run with what's working.
Also, more imbalance, and more max protect. We have the guys to beat one-on-one coverage (Crabtree, Davis, Gore, and to a lesser extent Morgan). We need to protect Alex, and let him and these other elite talents use their superior athletic ability. Between Smith, Crabtree and Davis we've got 3 top-10 picks amongst our offensive skill players, and that doesn't even include Gore. Rather than running the offense we wish we could succeed with, we should run the offense that takes advantage of these superior athletes.
Another sad day.......Men.. this is depressing
The U.S. Army says 12 people have been killed and 31 wounded in a shooting rampage on the Fort Hood Army base in Texas.
Matt- I really wish you could add more bite to these interviews. Raye's answers are BEGGING for follow up questions. I don't think the fan base is asking for 50 plus throws a game, but just not to keep on running up the middle on EVERY first down... especially when Raye see's for himself that 8 men are in the box. Our offense is literally handicapping themselves by wasting EVERY first down on this garbage.
How bout just asking him outright if HE feels like he is letting the team down? Ask him if a team is averaging 2 yards a carry on first down, if it is smart to keep running on first down? Ask him if he thinks he has made ANY mistakes at this point of the season? The guy is nothing but an excuse machine- its tired
"The 49ers' run game is about quantity, not quality, 49ers offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye said."
Did I read that correctly? I think I'm missing something here, because I can't for the life of me comprehend how that makes a lick of sense.
Let me translate for you
"The 49ers running game is terrible (not a thing of quality), therefor we make up for it with a massive dose (or quantity) of unsuccessful runs to fool the opponents into thinking we are a power running team."
For heavens sakes, can't they please STOP calling themselves a "power running team" It's embarrassing. Aside from Gores 3 TD runs the most effective running from the 49ers I've seen is when they jog off the field after another 3 and out.
I don't even understand what this guy is saying! He sounds like Nolan, just gibberish! He doesn't want to pass but he's complaining about 8 men in the box. He thinks the offense is doing what it's supposed to do, but then not really. He has the tools to throw, but he wants to run, even though the box is stacked. What the freak is this guy talking about?
First - and foremost - everybody please do not forget that you can cast votes at NFL.com for Pro-bowl, i.e., Justin Smith, P-Willy and whomever.
Secondly, maybe I am the ONLY one "not having a clue" when it comes to our offense and our OC. Bottom line, this post (and practically every other one I've read from the Mighty MM hereon following a chat with the Niner "Brain-Trust" is perfectly lucid to me - and makes total and honest sense. I do believe that most of you that are writing are on the opposite end of the age-scale from yours truly - in other words - the generation of wanting and demanding "instant-gratification" - and unfortunately, it just ain't gonna happen - not in football, not in any of the "real" aspects of life. Four or five games into the season and all you "experts" are going on and on about "do this" or "they should do that." It is not that simple people, Stop JUST ONE MINUTE - repeat, ONE MINUTE and THINK. These players and these coaches want to win so bad they can taste it. And they try. And that SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO ALL. So it naturally follows that if it was so DAMN SIMPLE to just up and switch to what you are suggesting - don't you think they would, for crying out loud. Be realistic - and calm down. Singletary, Raye, this whole team and its present/current mind-set, everything about it is "brand new" people. Can you not see that? They are adjusting and changing as they can, when they can. And anyone who cannot see that is really stuck in that "please me now - or go home mode" and that is, to me, a very sad thing. The Niners cannot and they will not just "snap their fingers" and "Be all that you demand them to be" and it ain't even realistic to rant, rave, and dream about it. If they could they would. The team is evolving, and will continue to do so. Get used to it. And by the way - I've watched them and suffered with them since the days of getting pooped on at Kezar. Where were you?
We know that Singletary and Raye have said from day one that they want to be a balanced attack .We also know that the team has passed far more than it has run this season,so we are not calling plays like we want to be only a run team but like we want to win,whatever it takes.
We have needed to change QB's and the O line has been changed almost every week and our best WR was not available and is still not up to speed,and out starting RB has been out for several games,and yet,Raye has us only 3 plays away from being 6-1 and we only lost 3 games by a total of 10 points.
Sounds to me that Raye is very close to getting it all together.Even though I am still skeptical about they type of run plays he calls sometimes,I understand that he MUST keep the offense balanced. I hope the players execute better and the OC does get a bit more creative,but he has only had a QB with a strong arm for 6 quarters and is struggling with a less than good offensive line etc etc. I am willing to give him the benifit of the doubt and hope he gets it all together in time to make the playoffs and to make a great showing in those playoffs. If he can't do it then I also hope Norv is broght back.
This is a team built on defense,but the offense has to be consistent and not turn over the ball and score points. It is obviously a work in progress.I hope it progresses quickly and to it's potential.
Eeeeasy folks. Don't let your memories fail you, but this is the 7th OC in as many seasons. JRII has a very limited history with the personnel and their skill sets. The system and the players within need an opportunity to grow and get better. The Colts didn't become the Colts, the Pats didn't become the Pats, and etc and so forth, without time and continuity. Did anyone really expect the Niners offense to be back to it's mid '80s form overnight? Folks want a few seeds to become a full blown harvest in a blink. Ain't gon' happen peoples.
That said tho, they better mash the Titans.
9ernut,
Great post ! But you must remember that we are fans and that is short for fanatic. Fanatics are generally short on patience. I at least hope that most of the fans can see that we are certainly on the right track and quickly moving up to be competitors for the SB trophy every years in the future. The future looks great for the Niners,now if the fans can be just a bit patient.But on the other hand,I understand that we HAVE BEEN patient for several years already and although the turnaround seems that it is certainly coming quickly,we do want tangeble proof that it is really true,like more wins and less excuses.
Reply to 9ernutt,
It is true , in this league today, either you do it now or you're done!
I have seen a lot of football and when you see a team that has "it" you know it it immediately.
This team has some of the parts of "It" but Mr. Raye is not one of those parts.
The window to win championships is very small, you may want to wait for another cycle to come around. I do not.
First 49er game , Nov. 1956, Kezar.
Matt,
I remember when Alex was coming out of college he was criticized for playing in a "gimmicky" spread offense and that he'd have to learn how to be a drop-back passer to be successful in the NFL. I just think it's funny that we're now talking about installing a type of play for Alex that supposedly wouldn't work at this level. So what's the verdict on the spread offense? Does it work in the NFL or not?
Matt,
I remember when Alex was coming out of college he was criticized for playing in a "gimmicky" spread offense and that he'd have to learn how to be a drop-back passer to be successful in the NFL. I just think it's funny that we're now talking about installing a type of play for Alex that supposedly wouldn't work at this level. So what's the verdict on the spread offense? Does it work in the NFL or not?
Question: So what's the verdict on the spread offense? Does it work in the NFL or not?
My response: Certain elements of the spread works in the NFL, but there are no teams that have used it as their sole form of offense. With the diminished protection capabilities and the limited options in the run game, the feeling is that NFL defenses would adjust too quickly and put too many hits on the QB.
Interestingly, 49ers QB coach Mike Johnson spent part of last year at Illinois looking at their spread. He told me the reason he went there is because Illinois has a more advanced run game out of that formation than any other program in college football. --Matt M.
My bad, I read your post after the fact. I pretty much said (or was trying to) the samething you did.
"Interestingly, 49ers QB coach Mike Johnson spent part of last year at Illinois looking at their spread. He told me the reason he went there is because Illinois has a more advanced run game out of that formation than any other program in college football."
Mmmmm hmm...you tryina start an OC controversy Maiocco??? - lol.
Okay Raye's an idiot.
#1 - "If you do that it takes away the threat of the run."
um..... you can run out of the spread
#2 - "throw the ball 48 or 52 times a game"
nobody is advocating that. nobody.
what people are asking for is that the 49ers not be so predictable. defenses can tell whether it's run or pass based on what personnel grouping they throw out there and down + distance. all the LBs have to do is follow FB to the football. it's so obvious.
no one is saying you have to constantly trick defenses - which would likely be Raye's idiotic response - but you do have to keep them off balance. creating hesitation would benefit the OL greatly.
Solid, Matt. Thanks! Will be interesting to see how the rest of the season fleshes out offensively.
My opinion is probably in the minority but I think Coach Singletary And Raye's offensive philosophy will keep this team down this year and next. Ball control offense's control the ball by getting first downs. The thinking that you have to be some kind of smash mouth running team to control the ball is not smart. Coach Sing said it himself " I not going to try to out smart anybody" and he hasn't. Is it his vision to turn this team into the Baltimore Ravens or Chicago Bears. Singletary and Raye have been out witted and out coached with very few exceptions. Coach Sing's opinions and philosophy on offense should be kept to himself. The selection of the next offensive coordinator should be done without his input. I would like to see Holmgren, Shanahan or Gruden given serious attention this off season. Singletary is a good man and has done some good things for this team but I don't think he is the one to take the team to their next Super Bowl. Hope I'm wrong.
Reply to 9ernutt
Thanks for your comments. I agree with what you said. There are not too manny of us old farts around. I saw may first game in Nov. 46 their first year at Kezar with my dad. I remember hearing John Madden one day when asked if he was to start a team from scratch were would start. His answer was with the OL. They win more games than any other part of the team. With out a good OL you are in trouble. I wish our GM heard the same answer. Well mabe next draft he will get the message, we pray!!!!
Coach Raye has been around the NFL a long time. He knows a lot of football but his record prior to this year as an OC has never been much better than average. I do not think he has shown very much creativity this year, but what did you think you were getting by hiring him?
The clear answer to having a better downfield passer, a better wide receiver and a weaker line is to use the pass more than originally planned. You have to make the defense pay for those 8 man fronts. Then your injured line can be more effective when you mix in the run. The philosophy of run, run, run works when you have lots of stud linemen. We do not have that kind of line. Ball control wins games, not running 60% of the time and gaining
Geez! I think I started to go brain numb halfway down the interview - all this "gravitating" - I thought maybe this was an 18th century essay by Isaac Newton or something. Forget the talk, talk, talk. Only one thing impresses me about offensive football coaches - THEIR TEAMS MOVE THE DAMN BALL AND SCORE POINTS! Raye's into his 60s (I'm almost there myself, so no ageism here)and has been coaching for 30 plus years. He ain't gonna change, baby. If the team gets RESULTS, scores points, wins games - then he's done his job. If it doesn't, he hasn't. The talent is decent enough on the offensive side, that a VERY fine coach could make a difference. We fired Martz (whose teams ALWAYS moved the ball, enough to get into two super bowls)and hired this retread. Do you think Sean Payton could get this offense moving? It's wait and see time, that's all that can tell the tale (for this season, anyway).
I don't care about all this spread offense talk... how about putting 3 WR's on the field and running the freakin ball against nickel and dime D alignments????
Jimmy if you have 9 in the box the defense will have 8...DUUHHHH
Sando pointed out this glaring problem, the 9ers only run when the other team knows they will run because of the personnel on the field...
I am gonna give Raye the benefit of the doubt because his excuses are valid (OL, QB instability, GORE INJ), but if this geezer doesn't get it together by the middle of next year he will probably be on his way out no matter what the teams record is
The Pats ran the Spread Offense as well as anyone in 2007 and was one of the most productive NFL Offenses ever. One could argue it reeally wasn't the spread because Brady never ran from it.
As was mentioned above Gore had three long runs but besides that we haven't been running the ball well. Those runs were becuase of an 8 man front and Gore broke tackles. That the risk an 8 man front does. But teams use it against us because it works. We rank 27th in rushing.
I'm thinking about this from another angle. The 49ers defense has been very good and also innovative. Has the innovation come from Singletary or is Sing just letting go of the reins on Manusky and Manusky is being innovative?
Matt,
I saw you and Kawakami and Lynch all on Chronicle Live . My question to all of you is,why do you all keep buying into the myth that Sing and Raye and the Niners offense is a run,run,run offense? You know that Raye has called many more pass plays this season than he has called run plays. Of course Sing and Raye emphasised improving the run game this season because it was pretty bad last year and our inability to run in key situations last season kept us out of a good chance at winning our division. So naturally Sing came into camp this season talking up making sure that he could run the ball anytime he needed to run the ball. But he always added that he wanted a balanced offense and wanted to be physical on the run but also with the pass.
Sing and Raye have not been able to get the run to the level they had hoped,not even close.They have failed so far at that goal. But they still have that as a goal. But the real goal is to be able to run and pass at will,to be balanced.
You and Kawakami and Lynch know the statistics,that the Niners are passing more than running this season,and you even made note of the Niners passing on 1st downs 17 times against the Colts,while only running 8 times on 1st downs. And yet,you and the others seem to forget all the facts and reality and when you get on tv ,you all seem to keep up the myth that Raye and Sing are so run oriented that it is keeping them from passing enough.I agree that PERHAPS they don't call the proper pass and run plays all the time ,etc.and they could be a bit more creative. BUT the fact is that the Niners ARE a passing team right now and have been all season. That doesn't mean they are doing it correctly all the time and doesn't mean they are not making mistakes and are not still searching for better results with the new offense .( a new offensive system that has been changing it's offensive line almost weekly,ever since camp opened,and that has not had it's starting RB for about 3 games and who did not have it's best WR for most of the season and who just changed it's QB 6 quarters ago etc.,no wonder Raye hasn't got the offense working like clockwork yet,who could under those circumstances?)
I wish you would start correcting your fellow writers and talking heads when they say that all Sing and Raye want to do is become a run only team and take the team back to the 60's ,etc.
You know better and they should too !
Don't get me wrong,one of the reasons I know what I know about the Niners and Raye and sing etc,is because I read your blog. So I know you know all this,it's just that you don't seem to correct your fellow media folks on Chronicle live or KNBR wtc wtc,when they put out bad info,which they seem to do on a daily basis.
And you talk about other people ranting? This is jibberish.
Thanks 9ernutt for being a man of reason! Because as I posted earlier the "SIMPLETONS" don't get it nor do the WANT to get it. It's like Jim Mora Sr. said one time to the media (god I miss that guy!) "You guys don't know what we do...You think you know but you don't....And you NEVER WILL!"
Ninermd, I didn't expect you to grasp what I was saying. After all, it was written in English, a language beyond your comprehension.
I re-read your post Skeebers,the one ninermd was attacking,and it seemed logical and straighforward and pretty much right on the money,imho.
It's real simple, Jimmy:
1. Your QB knows -- and knows how to run -- the spread. (Plus he's a more complete and articulate thinker than you are, anyway; he also shows a more complete understanding of creative offensive concepts.)
2. Crabs knows -- and excellled in -- the spread. And it would cut his learning curve at least in half.
3. The OL is weak and getting weaker by the week as starters coninue to drop with frightening regularity. The spread makes pass blocking a LOT easier, and can enhance the run game (as even Frank understands) because it makes the box emptier.
4. Alex is showing the ability to call his own plays -- which makes the spread even more effective. (Indeed, he called ALL the plays in that nice -- spread-run -- two minute drill before the half on Sunday. After that, a lot of passing, but not much spread. Catch the difference, Jimmy?)
5. Running into an 8-9 man box is a total loser's game in this and any other league. Think about it.
6. Alex can now run a no-huddle; the spread makes the no-huddle even more effective, and prevents defenses from changing personnel re down and distance.
7. Tho once just a college thing, the BEST pro teams now run a LOT of spread. Just ask Brady and Peyton.
8. You don't need to run it 100% -- but with our personnel and injuries, and especially the guys we have at the skill positions, you'd have to be an idiot not to see the spread's a most effective tool here.
Result: Go spread -- at LEAST 50-60% of the time; and no-huddle at least a third of the game. Or just keep running your head into the wall. Are ya listening, Jimmy?
Hi Matt, I think one of Singletary's best assets is that he doesn't "stay the course" when the team is losing. He responds quickly, if something is not right he moves to change it. Past years we needed help everywhere, but now we're in a position where we can focus on one facet of the team to improve, that of course being the OL. Sure we need help in other areas but nowhere near past years.
"Coach Sing said it himself " I not going to try to out smart anybody" "
He sure as hell isn't. Why? Because he can't.
I swear to god, Bill Walsh must be vomiting in his grave. In the good years, the 49ers ALWAYS out-smarted people. Their focus wasn't on being the "stronger man" or the "better man," it was on being the SMARTER man.
Sing and Raye are dumb and dumber. As long as they remain in their current assignments, the 49ers will be mediocre to horrible, just like they were under Erickson and Nolan.
What I wouldn't give to get Holmgren or Shanahan.
When we're in a 21 personnel group (two backs, one tight end, two receivers), we see more gap-controled eight-man add-on fronts than we'd normally like to see.
And apparently he is averse to doing anything with his offense to counter that.
Some really good probing questions there. I don't have much problem with anything he said there except that we try to stay close so we can win in the 4th quarter. That's terrible.
I hope that's only when Hill was in there, and they knew they couldn't go anywhere with him. Still, how can an NFL offense have that attitude? It's like saying we are so bad, we just want to waste time and not make mistake. Let our defense keep the game close for us, then hopefully we can score in the 4th quarter. We can't go above .5 with that attitude and approach. It'll average out, as it did in the last 7 weeks.
as goofy as many of them are, these postings have been more creative and entertaining than the niner offense.
that probably won't change until there is some stability on the OL, but at least there is comic relief available after another disappointing loss.
You either design a system and find the players necessary to run it such as the Pat’s or Mr. Walsh or design a system and strategy suited to your players. Remember BW won a SB with a named Elliott at RB. It was his system and strategy coupled with very good execution that kept defenses guessing. My gripe with the current situation is it appears the only thing that has gone well is the use of VD. The remainder of the passing game was lacking until Crabs showed up and is still far from adequate. The run game is terrible exclusive of a couple of long ones. Bottom line Raye Raye….if they stack the box you better pass them out of it. He has demonstrated no ability to accomplish this goal. If the o-line is weak then move the pocket. As someone noted the run game looks bland. I would love to see a large dose of pro set with Coffee and Gore, VD Crabs and Morgan. Just like the days of Rathman and Craig. Who you gonna cover? Both backs can run, catch passes and all the receivers can get it done. The TE has demonstrated skills and I think those two WR’s cause problems for folks. The whole idea is surprise. I think this lineup becomes very unpredictable if you can be creative in calling plays, but you actually have to be creative and that is where I think Raye falls short. The old niner playbooks are posted on the net, maybe Raye needs to go take a look.
I have heard Jed York interviewed a couple of times (the most recent being with Gary Radnich at KNBR yesteday) and I have to say I come away more and more impressed by Jed every time I hear him talk. I could be wrong, but I think the man has a bit of his Uncle Eddie in him. I really believe, if the Niners crash and burn the rest of the way, that Jed will pull the trigger on McCloughgan and Singletary just the way Eddie did on Joe Thomas.
If it comes to that, I hope Jed keeps the 49er history in mind when looking for a new coach and GM. It is obvious he knows footabll. He comes across as something of a football nerd in fact. Hopefully he will hire an offensive minded head coach. preferably someone from the Bill Walsh coaching tree.
Of course, I hope it does not come to that and we make the play-offs this year.
9ernutt,Skeebers,F49er,Stampede,-thanks for advocating a reasoned response to Coach Raye's interview. Please gentlemen,you cater to your lower instincts when you use an interview such as this as springboard to vent your frustrations at recent team losses.Coach Raye may not suit your inclinations but inferring he is an idiot is simply off the mark.As the above have indicated this team is a work in progress,Coach Walsh didn't post great numbers in his first year as H C (nor Shanahan or Holmgen )give these guys a little more time before the declarations!
Sing made a point after the Colt loss that they made mistakes, mistakes the more mature Colts didn't make. He pointed to the team being young, learning how to play as a team and needing to avoid mistakes.
He said that he doesn't want to open it up too much because the more open they play the more likely they are to make mistakes. And this is true, the more wide-open you get the greater chance for turn-overs like interceptions. I don't think he believes they're ready to go toe-to-toe with some of the better and more mature offenses in the league.
And to this I agree. People here can scream and yell for more offensive creativity, but you would probably be the same people screaming at turnovers and 3 and outs (or wondering what we'll do now that the QB is out because he got crushed).
It may not be sexy, but it's more open than we thought it would be, and that trend will continue as the coaches learn A. Smith, and Alex gets more comfortable.
9ernutt,
You stated, "The Niners cannot and they will not just "snap their fingers" and "Be all that you demand them to be" and it ain't even realistic to rant, rave, and dream about it. If they could they would. The team is evolving, and will continue to do so."
I'm not asking for change overnight. We've played 7 games and Raye continues to run up the gut on first down, with the same results: a two yard gain. All I'm asking is Raye to surprise someone by throwing deep on first down. Heck, I would even take a three yard out to Gore in the flat. It sure beats having him repeatedly run into a brick wall on first down. It's like the Hostler nightmare all over again.
How much longer do you think Raye will need before he gets a clue to pass on first downs when the opposing D stacks 8 in the box? Let's have a friendly wager. I bet you six-pack that on our opening drive this Sunday, Raye will call a dive to Gore up the A gap. Result: A two yard gain.
So as far as changing overnight, a simple pass on first down will do.
Let's just hope Jed hasn't got Uncle Eddies propensity for casino deals...
I don't care if it was written in German. I know a jibberish rant when I read one. Who cares how he speaks? We only care how he runs this offense. This isn't speach 101 it's football. And by him using the phrase "going forward" shows the he and sing are reading from the same cards. Going forward, at this time, very excited. Same words used in every answer given.
This was a disappointing interview.
I know we are to grind it out all year, but if we have a chance to put a team away then we have to do it. At least go up two scores before going back to the run run pass, three and out philosophy.
I hope, and I suspect, that Sing and the Niners are just playing a ruse through the media and are game planning for the last stretch of games to make a significant playoff push. Unfortunately I think this week is the last week we can stick with the conservative game plan. With games against Chicago and GB it will be tough to sit back and play 1985 ball.
Casino deals are OK, just stay away from crooked politicians in Louisiana.
Raye has been passing on 1st downs. Problem is the passes are coming out of run sets that have little to no hope of success. Raye's offense is simply unimaginative and his play calling is extremely predictable. Defenses can easily defend our plays because they know the play from the formation in correlation to down & distance. Raye really is a joke of an OC.
Jimmy Raye is an idiot. He's complaining of 8 man fronts yet he insists they need to run the ball for 4 yards on first. Did it ever occur to him that they are seeing 8 man fronts because EVERYONE knows they are running? Use a 3 wide, V.D. slot, single back set on first down (pass it 40% of the time) and I will guarantee that Gore starts to average 5 yards on first down carries.
At this point, Raye has not shown he can keep a defense off balance in anything other than a 2 minute drill when the defense is playing prevent. If I'm an opposing DC why wouldn't I stack the box. I know you're going to run it on first and second down 85-90% of the time anyways.
Balance to Jimmy Raye means running on first down 90% of the time, running on 2nd down 70% of the time, running on third 10% of the time. That's why we are so good at 3 and outs. Everyone is at least 70% sure of what we are doing on a given down.
Hey Jimmy, balance means mixing it up no matter what the down. Every down should be a 50-50 ratio. Your calling it for ratio in total.
One last thing. If you're seeing 8 man fronts, how about a flea flicker?
Oh and by the way, Jimmy Raye, YOU SUCK!!
Coach Sing must learn to delegate. This means staying out of the room when the offensive game plan is being made. No doubt Raye must go. {tactfully if possible]. Also what is the deal with Alex Boone? Can he play at this level or not?
To me, Raye sounds like an offensive version of Nolan trying to come up with reasons why things aren't working right. You'd think a good OC that's been around as long as Raye has would be able to use that experience to come up with something better than what we've seen as far as game plans go. From the start of the year, 2nd down has been the usual up the middle run and it's generally a 2nd and long situation.
My problem with his play calling: running for only 2+ yds/carry doesn't control the clock, Jimmy, getting FIRST DOWNS DOES, whether by running or passing.
this is the first time Jimmy Raye is making sense on his answers. the playcalling needs treaking. I thought in the Colts game, there were couple of series where the playcalling was good, but stalled due to penalty or drops, or fumble. Running when the pass was expected, and vice versa.
I think he is on the right track.
it is his first year, patience Niner fan.
It's a crying shame that so many "experts" on this blog are sitting in the warmth of their sofas instead of coaching on an NFL sideline. With all this knowledge I'm surprised that they have not been snapped up by a team that needs their foresight and incredible instinct to take them over the top. The fact that most of their experience in the passing game is relegated to chips and dips and their familiarity with the run game is trying to make it back from the bathroom during a commercial break in no way makes them less an expert than Raye and Singletary.
Great job on the interview MM. From this read many of our fears are completely justified.
"When we're in a 21 personnel group (two backs, one tight end, two receivers), we see more gap-controled eight-man add-on fronts than we'd normally like to see." You go to a formation and run the same basic predictable run play from it 900 times and you are surpised that defenses are stacking up against it? Einstein and a certain definition for insanity comes to mind.
"If you do that [go spread] it takes away the threat of the run." - No, it opens up the run by opening up the stacked box you complain about as well as getting the defense into an expect the pass mindset. Look at the Titans vs Jax tape from just last week, tons of quality runs from the spread.
Nobody in their right mind is asking for a complete transition to the spread, just desire to mix things up a bit because there are so many drives that lack imagination that it is at the point that you can tell many of them will be 3 and outs after the first play. You have had zero success with your predictable style of running and some measureable success with the pass... while he showed some moderate recognition of this the how and why seem to be flying over his head and that is why so many of us are shaking ours. Leading the league in 3 and outs with our talent is not acceptable. To blame our line for not being the vikings line shows an ineptitude on his part for player evaluation and a lack of imagination to adjust and get the best that you can with what we do have. I'm not from the "gimme now" instant gratification crowd, just wanting to see something different dialed up than the same thing that has proven to fail so many times that we have more 3 and outs than the "can you even name someone on their offense" bucs.
Matt, good read as usually. Like hearing you on KNBR and Comcast TV. Regarding Raye, I don't think it is the power run versus the spread that is the issue. My impression of the offense after watching 7 games, is that it is the game adjustments and calls during critical times of the game (depending on score, etc). I like Singletary, although I was critical of him in the first 3 - 4 games because you could see at that time the offense would impede winning eventually. Now that he made the switch to Alex, I know he will do what is necessary to win. I'd say at some point he may need to make QB coach Johnson the assistant OC especially if the adjustments during the game continue to be poor. Attacking on both sides of the ball is always best. At this point, Raye has the rest of the year to show what he can do.
RAYE GUN! RAYE GUN! RAYE GUN!
I think the key work here is OPPORTUNITY. I wasn't a big believer in OC Jimmy Raye, but I now believe his theories can work. Let's just cross our fingers we can stick w/ the same OC for more than one season.